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Offline Burt

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Re: HELP! Shock
« Reply #40 on: November 18, 2016, 02:10:05 AM »
*Originally Posted by GlynnJ [+]
Well, I heard back from the dealer today and Triumph won't entertain a claim  :023: I think it's rather poor that a 3-year old/8000 mile bike should lose the ability to adjust the rear preload.

I might try the 'fix' before looking for a replacement.

I don't know what kind of laws you have in your country, but here in Aus if something like that would happen to me, regardless of the age of the vehicle, I would write a letter to Triumph and ask for a written explanation of how it broke. If they can prove that it was due to abuse, no problem, otherwise we are going to court for faulty engineering. How many time you did turn the preload in three years and 8000 miles? 50 times? 100 times? 500 times? Ask Triumph when they design the component and did the testing, what the MTBF was... You should be able to adjust the preload for the entire life of the shock. Its not a separate part but integrated with it

Its a design flaw!

Don't bother with the dealer, just speak to Triumph. The least they can do is replace the faulty part for free, not the entire shock...

Offline AvgBear

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Re: HELP! Shock
« Reply #41 on: November 18, 2016, 04:07:14 AM »
*Originally Posted by Burt [+]
Its not a separate part but integrated with it.
The least they can do is replace the faulty part for free, not the entire shock.
See the first line (above ^^^)..!
("it's not a separate part, etc...")
Only available as a complete suspension unit.
The rear suspension unit (of which the adjuster is part) lists for, something-like, $875 USD.
(not that price is germane when discussing "principle"...  :015: )
Old poem from 'back in the day':
You'll never wear out the Indian Scout -- or its brother the Indian Chief.
They're built like rocks to take hard knocks -- it's the Harleys that give all the grief.

Offline Burt

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Re: HELP! Shock
« Reply #42 on: November 18, 2016, 01:38:34 PM »
*Originally Posted by AvgBear [+]
See the first line (above ^^^)..!
("it's not a separate part, etc...")
Only available as a complete suspension unit.
The rear suspension unit (of which the adjuster is part) lists for, something-like, $875 USD.
(not that price is germane when discussing "principle"...  :015: )

Probably to customers, but not to manufactures, especially if proven to be a defective part...

Either way, I don't see the reason for not trying to establish a case, regardless of warranty, and get a replacement if possible... Most types of Showa shock are fully serviceable, therefore the separate components must exist...  :002:

Offline AvgBear

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Re: HELP! Shock
« Reply #43 on: November 18, 2016, 05:20:56 PM »
*Originally Posted by Burt [+]
Either way, I don't see the reason for not trying to establish a case, regardless of warranty, and get a replacement if possible...
Valiant effort...(strong on "principle")
Folks can't get fork seals replaced under warranty -- good luck with a suspension unit (or, a part that isn't in the parts inventory...).
 :003:
Still, I agree -- it's a problem that needs a remedy.
Old poem from 'back in the day':
You'll never wear out the Indian Scout -- or its brother the Indian Chief.
They're built like rocks to take hard knocks -- it's the Harleys that give all the grief.

Offline GlynnJ

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Re: HELP! Shock
« Reply #44 on: November 18, 2016, 05:27:25 PM »
Still working on it with the dealer. I will let you know...

Offline Burt

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Re: HELP! Shock
« Reply #45 on: November 19, 2016, 05:11:05 AM »
*Originally Posted by AvgBear [+]
Valiant effort...(strong on "principle")
Folks can't get fork seals replaced under warranty -- good luck with a suspension unit (or, a part that isn't in the parts inventory...).
 :003:
Still, I agree -- it's a problem that needs a remedy.

While I get what you are saying, I don't think that a consumable part like the fork rubber seal are comparable to the preload adjustment of the shock. Showa must have some MTBF data that they would have share with Triumph before the decision to use their shocks was made...

What I'm saying is that: the shock itself it is a consumable part where there is wear and tear that eventually leads to failure. The preload adjustment is not a consumable part. If it breaks, it is because the design has flaws... Same as the front forks: if the seal leaks that's ok, as that a consumable part, but if one of end cup snap off on its own, that's a failure of the component. It may be a fine line, but I can easily distinguish between the two. And probably so, most magistrate...

It always make me laugh when I see people posting about company doing things out of "good will" There is a clever lawyer behind every "Good Will" decision made  :017:

Problem is that in this society, people have forgotten or can't be bothered to stand up for their rights. This is the same as the noise in the front and rear shock. If we did stand united and together there would have possibly already been a recall for that. I'm the prime example for this. My shock do make noise, but I haven't done a thing about it. Things is, they work and so.....

But if or when my preload (as WP are slight different in the design) breaks, Triumph will have to explain to me how it did break in writing... And I'm betting now, there will be a "Good Will" coming on my way. 

Good Will = Acknowledgement of the failure, without expressing implied responsibility...  That's all it is...:028:

Offline Burt

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Re: HELP! Shock
« Reply #46 on: November 19, 2016, 05:24:07 AM »
*Originally Posted by GlynnJ [+]
Still working on it with the dealer. I will let you know...

I would just gently ask for a "written explanation" from Triumph (as it has nothing to do with the dealer) of how the component did break. Then you'll see what happen...

Offline AvgBear

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Re: HELP! Shock
« Reply #47 on: November 19, 2016, 04:23:09 PM »
And.., it's incumbent upon the dealer & Triumph to contest every warranty claim (unless there's a recall, tech bulletin, etc.).
As well as it's incumbent upon the customer to report faults...
If and when every "issue" is dealt with F.O.C. warranty, the price will surely increase.
If the product is, ultimately, deemed inferior? -- vote with your wallet..!
As for "good will" warranty work: that ebbs and flows (often depending on the company's current sales status).
Companies have been know - in times of 'distressed' sales - to be quite "benevolent" when it comes to warranty claims; whilst, at other times (when ordered to "crack-down" by the accountants at Hdqts.), disapprove even obvious (to most) warranty claims.
BTW, there was a time (not all that long ago, really) when motorcycles were sold with no ("0") warranty.  :003:
(I think bikes designed for competition use still don't get a warranty?)
Old poem from 'back in the day':
You'll never wear out the Indian Scout -- or its brother the Indian Chief.
They're built like rocks to take hard knocks -- it's the Harleys that give all the grief.

Offline Burt

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Re: HELP! Shock
« Reply #48 on: November 19, 2016, 09:44:44 PM »
This is what I have been witness for the past 40+ years in the Motorcycle / Car Industry

Level 1 = Denial

We'll see how the customer reach to this approach. If he's stupid, he will believe us and leave. If he doesn't know anything about motors, we can feed him with some bullcrap, and hopefully he will leave. If he's smart and our silly story doesn't work on him, and he's starting to make too much noise, lets swiftly take him aside and move to level 2.

Unfortunately this is the most common situation that also lead the customer believe that the dealer did indeed look after his interest, where in all honestly it is quite the opposite...


Level 2 = Good Will

We fix this one and hopefully the customer won't tell anyone. We may get away with few units replacement. As an added bonus, the customer will now give us more referral business by coming back for schedule services. He trust us now...


Level 3 = Workshop Bulletin

We could get in trouble but we can't admit it in public so not to damage our public image. We fix them as the stupid customer founds out. It will cost us a bit but the company image is safe. Legally they can't touch us as we had our workshop bulletin out and the customer had the choice to give us a call to find out if his vehicle had a problem. Is not our fault if he choose to use an independent mechanic


Level 4 = Recall

We are in trouble and because someone has or could die, we got caught by the department of transport after they received too many complains from our customer...
Oh well, hopefully most of our customer have already died or sold the vehicle, so that the new owner is possibly not in our database and we can't reach him....

This scam game use to work a lot better before the Internet and all other form of social media were available to the masses. Back in the old days, you virtually had to wait for someone "Important" or well known to die before manufactures where forced to do something about their mistakes...

Now I do know from personal experience that there are also business out there not playing this game at all. Unfortunately they are getting rare to find and they will probably disappear altogether...
I also notice that this behaviour is adopted more by larger company that the small ones... At first... The small ones then tend to follow as they get larger...

Its a sad world... I'm going for a ride now.... :001:

 


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