Starter Motor

[Terry Ryan]

I've had the hot start issue with my 2015 XRX for a couple of years, only occurs after stalling the bike when very hot from ambient temperature (30c +) & slow speed riding, always fixes itself after 4-5 minutes cool down

[D6864]

Originally Posted by Javaman

Its due to an increase in the "dynamic compression ratio".
When the bores are hot, the cold air drawn into the cylinders is heated by the residual heat from the cylinders and this causes a significant increase in compression compared to a cold engine.
The reduced friction resulting from warm oil will offset this to some extent but the combined effect of both is to give about an 18% increase in cranking force required. The guy who posted didn't state how hot the engine was or how long it had been turned off but from reading his post, I would expect he had it idling for a while to get it good and hot and conducted the test within a minute or two.
All he did was remove the crankcase inspection plug and stick a socket on the nut on the end of the sprag and with a digital torque adapater attached, measured the amount of torque required to just turn the engine over "by hand"

That makes sense, thanks for the explanation 
I've had hot start issues too, but not so bad that I've had to do anything about it yet

[Telstar]

Hi all update on my 2014 Tiger ongoing starter motor issue I have bit the bullet and purchased a new one from Triumph part number T1314455 at a cost of £505 which is a lot of money for a starter but when it arrived you also get a new Engine cover and gasket, new Engine cover emblem, New Sprag Drive Gear Still think it’s a ridiculous price hopefully this upgrade will last longer if not this Tiger’s days are numbered.

7ED6A419-D8B6-428E-A32D-479DB7876CC7

[grizzlybear]

Did it cure the problem though

[stevedo]

Just to add my own recent experience to this thread. Bike is just short of 80,000 miles and I've been having some hot start issues for a while. My wife and I are currently travelling in Argentina (we're from the UK), started travelling in Alaska in June 2014, and I've been carrying the Denso parts required to refurbish the starter for a few years now.

After having to pour cold water on the starter a few times in order to get it to go we decided it was time to address the issue. We rented an apartment in Salta with a garage where I could remove the starter and hopefully find someone with a lathe to skim the commutator.

I went the remove throttle bodies route rather than try and remove the starter using the contortionist method :-)

Removal is easy and it soon became clear as to why we were having issues. The brushes were knackered and the commutator well worn. Then the fun began.

There was a small what appeared to be a workshop just down the road. It had a "Servicio Tecnico" sign outside with a picture of spanners and screwdrivers. On entering the workshop it was clear that they were a mobile phone repair shop! They suggested I ask at the oil place on the corner just a couple of blocks away. They suggested a motorcycle workshop just around the corner but they were no use at all. The motorcycle guy suggested a car workshop on the main street. Here we had some luck. The guy couldn't help us directly but he did know someone with a lathe. He showed us roughly on a map where it was but explained that it was just a house, he thought yellow, and he didn't know the guys name. This will be fun.

We walked about 20 minutes to where the car guy thought there might be someone with a lathe, just an ordinary residential street. A man was leaving his property with his bicycle so I asked him if he knew a man with a lathe nearby. Yes he said and pointed to the house opposite. I pressed the buzzer and an old man appeared looking somewhat suspicious of us. I explained that I was looking for a man with a lathe and explained what I needed. After some discussion (my Spanish is OK but not great) he agreed to help. At the bottom of his garden Pepe had a workshop with a lathe :-)

To cut a long story short Pepe skimmed the commutator on his lathe and we also managed to do the necessary soldering work to renew the brushes. Pepe turned out to be a great guy. We spent some time with him and his family.

Starter motor fully rebuilt and refitted it now functions as new. Photos should explain all.

Saludos
Steve

[Stevie.P]

I'm sure those brushes should have lasted another 5yrs.

Seriously, you certainly got the most out of them. It shows mine were barely worn when I started having starter motor problems which would indicate that sometimes something else is at play causing the issue.

[chuckxc]

Originally Posted by Stevie.P

I'm sure those brushes should have lasted another 5yrs.

Seriously, you certainly got the most out of them. It shows mine were barely worn when I started having starter motor problems which would indicate that sometimes something else is at play causing the issue.

Good news stevedo, good pictures and very resourceful being in Argentina! The 'something else' Stevie.P mentioned when the brushes are not too worn is probably the build-up of carbon dust interfering with the tight rotor fit.

PS if you want to help extend Pepe's life, perhaps suggest to him  he shouldn't leave that lathe chuck key in the chuck when the power is off! 

[Javaman]

Very interesting pictures and I hope you are able to confirm your starter gremlins are sorted.
Interesting to see the 800 uses a 4-brush starter. The 1050 Tiger/Sport both use a two-brush design and hot start issues appear to be very common.
That commutator is showing a significant amount of wear but perhaps this is a feature of having 4 brushes???
Keep us posted as to whether or not you’re defo sorted.
Very envious of your trip!!!

[Terry Ryan]

Just got around to fitting a new starter from Ricks Electrics from the States, under $300 AUD including an exorbitant $95 freight charge, sounds stronger than the original which had been giving problems for quite awhile. I looked at the contortionist method & decided the throttle body route was better. Why on earth did I need to remove 40 fasteners & use 10 different tools (3,4,5 & 6mm Allen keys, 8,10 & 19mm sockets, 1 Phillips screwdriver & 2 torx bits) to access it though? Not a job I'd like to do without a well equipped workshop.

[Stevie.P]

Originally Posted by Terry Ryan

Not a job I'd like to do without a well equipped workshop.

Unfortunately I had no option but to do mine outside as I have no garage/workshop facility,. I feel more for those who don't have the DIY confidence, or even a reasonably charging independent mechanic, and rely on paying their dealer,  I'm sure the labour bill would match or exceed the horrendous starter motor price (especially if buying the genuine Triumph starter kit with later idler gear and bits).