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Offline lparker1983

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Understanding Garmin zumo and basecamp my info!
« on: December 13, 2015, 10:25:25 AM »
My experience with zumos and various softwares for trip planning over the years.  I have always used garmin zumos for bike travel starting with the bullet proof 550, then onto the 660 and now i have had the 590 for around 6 months.
  this is just my experience of softwares pros and cons as ive mapped countless complicated, detailed routes and some minght find it useful.

    The zumo 550 is a easy to use sat nav with features for the bike to which it was designed. i always used tyre to travel software for mapping routes and i found with the zumo 550 and the 660 it worked almost flawlessly every time in the uk and europe on motorways and back roads alike.
  The trick when using tyre is to make sure you have PLENTY of waypoints in the route as a found when i was transferring it onto my mates tom tom it wasnt following it at all, bascially a waypoint to a sat nav is just that, a point to which you are telling the sat nav to take you. ONce you reach that waypoint the sat nav will then want to take you to the next waypoint and so on but it also sees waypoints as little adventures!, so waypoint 1 to waypoint 2 is basically a mini route to a sat nav so it will take you via the quickest, shortest, avoided or whatever preference youve set in the sat nav itself. The further the distance between the waypoints the more chance the sat nav has of calculating a "better" route, which when touring you do not want it to do, you want it to follow the route you planned whilst at home exactly !! so when mapping add as many waypoints as your particular sat nav will let you put in and deal with so you force the sat nav into taking you down that minor road or over that pass because on that road you have put 2 waypoints which it has to pass through,. There is one downside to this when using tyre to travel though, you will get bombarded with waypoint flags on your sat nav throughout your day because of the amount you have put on!
  Now i used the above method for the 550 and the 660 with minimal problems and i think im right in remebering that the 550 even bypassed a waypoint if you went within a certain distance of it so it wasnt trying to turn you around all the time! The new 590 zumo and probably the other new ones, 350 and 390 DONT bypass and will want you to turn around but garmin have added a skip waypoint button on the nav to deal with this. I will be making a youtube clip this week to show you about all the stuff on that.
  Once i bought the 590 and started using it as ive always done by mapping on tyre and transferring to zumo i relaised i had a major problem! The sat nav didnt follow the route at all, i tried everything but i have put it down to this, the tyre to travel software runs googles maps to plot, once you transfer it garmin then takes over and all looks good on the overview map when it first loads up UNTIL you click calculate, why does it calculate you ask, it shouldnt need to surely you must think but because google and garmin use totally different mapping techniques as soon as you load any route into garmin it will recalculate using garmins maps and brains within the unit. This was usually fine for the older garmin units as they werent as complex in the way they calculate routes but this new 590 is a piece of kit with traffic trends included, more preferences to choose from and very complex maps.
    This is when i realised i needed to use the dreaded Garmin Basecamp to map routes and after spending hours and hours and hours using this software i can now see that Garmin have put a major number of man hours into designing this software to be a very good if not a bit sophisticated piece of kit!

  Starting with basecamp and setting it up properly is a MUST if you want to be able to use it smoothly with minimal problems, after its set up if the route isnt as you expected or the mileage / time isnt the same when you transfer the route from computer to the sat nav then its probably down to something youve not done or just done wrong!!

  First thing to do is connect your sat nav to garmin express and check for map updates, if you have lifetime maps then get the latest maps loaded onto your sat nav but also when you update MAKE SURE YOU CLICK THE CHECKBOX TO LOAD THEM ONTO YOUR COMPUTER TOO! This will mean that when planning routes on basecamp you wont need to have sat nav connected to your computer because its a slow to transfer map data via the usb cable and will get on your tits when zooming in and out etc! If you dont have lifetime updates just reinstall the maps you have to the computer as well.
   The secret is that if you have the same map on your computer as on your sat nav then there is NO conflict in mapping issues when transferring routes over (remember tyre to travel is google to garmin), basecamp is for instance on my computer (Europe 2016.40) and the sat nav is running the exact same maps (Europe 2016.40) so when i load a route after mapping it on the comp there are no compatibily issues. That is the map set up, now make sure what ever preferences you have got set on the sat nav ie, fastest route avoiding tolls, unpaved roads, and u turns is set up the same on Basecamp, i use the motorcycling profile as its just easier to remember which i have set up as i only use the sat nav when on the bike. Go into it and select/de select all the options EXACTLY as on the sat nav. Remember its all about making the settings the same on both.

  Once youve done all that you are ready to map. I always use the new route function to map as its just click click click click and everytime you click it drops a point in that it has to follow, like a waypoint if you like but there is one big difference with basecamp over tyre to travel, basecamp has waypoints and shaping points. This i will be going into detail in on the youtube clip as its far easier to see than read how but basically a waypoint is a point that the sat navs will alert you to when you get near and get to, a shaping point is like an invisible waypoint on the map, the sat nav still has to get to it but it doesnt alert you when you get there so for instance my 400 mile route from uk to france might have 4 waypoints that it alerts you to when you get there ( Start, Ferry Crossing, Lunch!, and the hotel at the end) but it also might have 350 shaping points that dont alert you but the sat nav will still go to all of them. This is a big advantage over tyre to travel as you only get alerted 4 times in the day instead of 354 times but the route itself is exactly the same and very accurate as you have put all those map shaping points in which it does every time you click the mouse.

  I hope this is starting to make some sense to those who use basecamp or for those like me who have used tyre which was an easy but  simple program and have been pulling there hair out trying to understand basecamp. I will explain more on mapping a route and shaping it on youtube this week. Hope you found something useful. Cheers.

Offline Flyfifer

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Re: Understanding Garmin zumo and basecamp my info!
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2015, 01:12:02 PM »
 :493: I am about to become a 390lm owner and having read through the garmin manual, all was far from clear !

This post and the vids you plan will be a big help. I found an american step by step for Garmins but on close inspection (and printing off pages of it!) it does not relate to 390 etc screens which is a shame because it was very detailed.

Anyway ---- back to your post. To miss out Waypoints whilst enroute, use the skip waypoint function, that's clear.
If you bypass a Shaping point ----- does it want to take you back to it ????

Offline lparker1983

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Re: Understanding Garmin zumo and basecamp my info!
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2015, 02:46:26 PM »
A shaping point is a point to which you set the route to in order to tell the sat nav which way you are actually wanting to go so in theory yes if you miss a shaping it will want to take you back to the point as its you that has put that point on the trip so the nav thinks your wanting to go there, although the shaping points in the menu on basecamp are either ALERT on arrival or DONT ALERT on arrival, if you de check the alert box for the particular shaping points you dont wish to see on your sat nav whilst enroute (i de-check all shaping points and use waypoints for important things) then it wont want to take you back to the shaping point youve missed due to roadworks or whatever.
   Some people however it will send them back, it just depends how new the unit is, the newer zumos will probably want to return you to the last point but if you find it is wanting to reroute you back everytime you go off the planned route if you make sure the auto re calculate is turned OFF on the sat nav then once youve got yourself back onto the planned route the sat nav will pick you back up as on the route and carry on as normal to the next shaping point.

Sounds harder than it is but its easy once youve done it once! Cheers

Offline Flyfifer

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Re: Understanding Garmin zumo and basecamp my info!
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2015, 03:52:34 PM »
 :087: so my summary of yr explanation is :-
Waypoints always alert on arrival and are always displayed.

Shaping points can be selected to alert or not.
Shaping points can be selected to display or not.
Turn off auto recalculate and there will be no instructions to go back to a Shaping point and directions for the route start again when you get back on it.

Routing will always want to take you to a Waypoint.
Use the Skip Waypoint function to bypass a Waypoint.

Have I got that right ?

If you do get misplaced and have recalculate turned off presumably you have to find your own way back to the route --- which negates one of the big plusses of a GPS.  Have I got that correct .

Offline lparker1983

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Re: Understanding Garmin zumo and basecamp my info!
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2015, 04:01:29 PM »
Yes that is pretty spot on. The older sat navs would skip a waypoint if you carried on past the missed one for long enough and would recalculate to the next one, the new sat navs do not as far as im aware , the only way to do it if you got lost and had auto calculate turned off would be either zoom out on your map so it would show where you are and also where the road is your trying to get to OR go back into trip planner on sat nav, select the route your on and delete the shaping points up to the point your at and then it would use the next point on your list as your first heading point if you get me!........A total Ball Ache!

Sat navs arent humans and thats the problem, you program them to do a job and then when you f**k up and go off route it wonders what the hell is going on and tries to get you back to the point that YOU put in it!  Its a pain in the arse!

Ps  i only know half of this because a Garmin Tech actually showed me how or id still be banging my nut against a wall!! :157:
« Last Edit: December 13, 2015, 04:03:46 PM by lparker1983 »

Online Stevie.P

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Re: Understanding Garmin zumo and basecamp my info!
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2015, 04:42:56 PM »
Thanks for the thread. I don't have a bike specific satnav and I'm only now considering moving into distance riding and considering foreign rides since starting to appreciate the capability and ability of the Tiger. Given that my current satnav experience is basically car use, just selecting a destination point, I hope to learn to put Basecamp into use on the bike.

My only issue, within your write up, is 'Garmin Express' .... totally crap in my experience. I have a Nuvi 770 and originally the unit came with both sets of maps (Europe & USA) loaded in the units memory. However 5+ years of Lifetime Updates resulted in me loading Europe on the satnav and using a 4GB sd card for storage of the USA. Garmin Express only wants to load the complete map sets and doesn't want to allow region selection, then fails to load either reporting lack of storage space. Fortunately I have always kept a backup copy of MapUpdater and fortunately, as yet, this still works fine connecting to Garmin and allows me to select regions, so currently I have Western Europe loaded (not all the way to Russia) and the 49 Upper States of the USA (not Canada) and consequently have used only a fraction of memory on the unit and storage card.
Also owned my 1979 Bonnie T140E from new!

We don't stop playing because we grow old .. WE GROW OLD BECAUSE WE STOP PLAYING!!!


Offline lparker1983

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Re: Understanding Garmin zumo and basecamp my info!
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2015, 05:29:51 PM »
Stevie,
   I think im on the right track in thinking that you would like all the maps in one place and express to be able to do it all?! I had the same problem as will everyone with the zumo 550s, maps too big, not enough room, wouldnt fill unit and put excess onto the card....
  There is a trick i used to make express think that an sd card was actually the sat nav itself, that way you can load all maps onto a 8 gig sd card and have room on sat nav memory for music etc with a bonus of being able to carry a spare set of maps with you on sd cards for different continents if you so wished.

 the site  i used was www.poi-factory.com/node/39231

 I can guide you through it if you cant understand the site but its pretty self explaining and once youve done it once its easy.

The newer units however dont need this as they have larger internal memories on them but can be done just the same if needed.

Online Stevie.P

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Re: Understanding Garmin zumo and basecamp my info!
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2015, 06:11:11 PM »
*Originally Posted by lparker1983 [+]
I think im on the right track in thinking that you would like all the maps in one place and express to be able to do it all?!

No. I actually find it more convenient to have my USA maps on the sd card and only put it in once a year (besides updates), that way the unit only has to process UK use without being cluttered with US info. The point was the introduction of 'Garmin Express' being a backward move (IMO) in not allowing selection of what sections of the map set I wanted and only trying to load the whole mapset. By selecting only the regions I want I have plenty of space internally and (in Europe) a spare card slot for music etc. thanks to the previous MapUpdater.
Also owned my 1979 Bonnie T140E from new!

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Offline lparker1983

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Re: Understanding Garmin zumo and basecamp my info!
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2015, 06:34:56 PM »
Ah yes . . . I get you now! Yes that's a problem with express you can only upload the whole map to computer or device.

 personally I don't mind as all the maps are on the device and it saves me messing wherever I go. Only full Europe mapping on mine though but yes America maps I assume are massive and impractical . Just a quick note on speeds of device, the 590 I have although it wasn't cheap it is fluid in zooming and moving maps about on screen whilst out and about. The previous 660+550 I used were clunky and slow . The processors have obviously been improved as things have moved forward.

Offline Flyfifer

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Re: Understanding Garmin zumo and basecamp my info!
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2015, 11:07:07 PM »
 :018: Here is a really basic question from a Zumo390 lurker.

 When using base camp does the "map donor" Garmin GPS need to be usb'd to the PC ??

 


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