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Online Turbo100

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Re: Nitron Shock - which one?
« Reply #70 on: December 03, 2017, 10:05:05 AM »
*Originally Posted by Rtwo [+]
I use a very complex procedure for setting suspension up - if it feels right, it is right  :001:
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Online KildareMan

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Re: Nitron Shock - which one?
« Reply #71 on: December 03, 2017, 01:25:34 PM »
*Originally Posted by Rtwo [+]
I use a very complex procedure for setting suspension up - if it feels right, it is right  :001:

++ :028:
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Online chuckxc

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Re: Nitron Shock - which one?
« Reply #72 on: December 03, 2017, 08:17:51 PM »
+++  :038:
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 08:25:23 PM by chuckxc »
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Offline tauzero

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Re: Nitron Shock - which one?
« Reply #73 on: December 06, 2017, 11:26:35 PM »
*Originally Posted by Kris [+]
In the link you provided the author says:     'The important thing to get absolutely clear is that a spring with lower rate (softer) can apply just as much force as a higher rate (stiffer) spring, it just needs to be compressed further to do it.'  If I am reading this correctly, he basically says that preload does change spring rate.

I suggest you read the second page:

"Note that, with some exceptions, thats all it does. Preload makes the bike sit higher, or lower. It does not make the spring stiffer. So if someone tells you that you should reduce your preload to make the bike feel less harsh, they probably dont have a clue."

Let's try this. Imagine a spring. Imagine the spring on end and you sitting on it. It will compress. Let's say it compresses 50mm.

Now imagine putting a G-clamp on the spring and compressing it so that it's compressed by 25mm. Then (avoiding the G-clamp) sit on it again. How much will the total compression be? And will that initial compression make any difference to the bounciness of the spring?
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Offline NEPAChuy

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Re: Nitron Shock - which one?
« Reply #74 on: December 07, 2017, 05:08:37 AM »
*Originally Posted by tauzero [+]
I suggest you read the second page:

"Note that, with some exceptions, thats all it does. Preload makes the bike sit higher, or lower. It does not make the spring stiffer. So if someone tells you that you should reduce your preload to make the bike feel less harsh, they probably dont have a clue."

Let's try this. Imagine a spring. Imagine the spring on end and you sitting on it. It will compress. Let's say it compresses 50mm.

Now imagine putting a G-clamp on the spring and compressing it so that it's compressed by 25mm. Then (avoiding the G-clamp) sit on it again. How much will the total compression be? And will that initial compression make any difference to the bounciness of the spring?

Its simple physics. Look up Hookes law.

The force a spring applies is equal to the spring constant (or spring rate as labeled on this thread) times the displacement squared, with the displacement being the distance the spring is compressed from its equilibrium length (or stretched, but thats not relevant to bike suspension).

The end result is: yes, if you increase your preload you will feel a stiffer or harsher suspension. Thats because the starting point of the spring is far from equilibrium and any additional load only makes it further away and therefore harsher.

Online chuckxc

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Re: Nitron Shock - which one?
« Reply #75 on: December 07, 2017, 11:35:50 AM »
Yet more mis-information just arrived on this thread. Mr. Hooke must be crying in his beer. Someone needs to take his own advice and look up Hookes law and correct his mistake. :138:
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Offline tauzero

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Re: Nitron Shock - which one?
« Reply #76 on: December 07, 2017, 12:50:21 PM »
*Originally Posted by NEPAChuy [+]
Its simple physics. Look up Hookes law.

The force a spring applies is equal to the spring constant (or spring rate as labeled on this thread) times the displacement squared, with the displacement being the distance the spring is compressed from its equilibrium length (or stretched, but thats not relevant to bike suspension).

The end result is: yes, if you increase your preload you will feel a stiffer or harsher suspension. Thats because the starting point of the spring is far from equilibrium and any additional load only makes it further away and therefore harsher.

I understand simple physics. It's a good job one of us does. It's not displacement squared. Assuming the spring in tension doesn't get to the elastic limit, nor in compression get to coil binding, displacement is directly proportional to force. So increasing preload just changes ride height. If you increase the preload to the point where the displacement is the same as would be produced by your weight, the bike won't sag when you sit on it. Increase it beyond that and the suspension won't move until you hit a significant bump. That's not stiffer, that's simply immobilised.
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Offline NEPAChuy

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Re: Nitron Shock - which one?
« Reply #77 on: December 07, 2017, 02:35:32 PM »
Oops, my bad. I made one typo by adding the word squared in my post. That doesnt change anything else I said in my statement. Its just like the internet for people to find something wrong and jump all over it.

(For what its worth, I must have had potential energy in the back of my mind while typing, which does in fact go like the displacement squared).

Online chuckxc

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Re: Nitron Shock - which one?
« Reply #78 on: December 07, 2017, 07:55:39 PM »
Huh? Potential Energy = mgh on my planet. Now Newton must be crying in his beer along with Hooke. :138:.
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Online Turbo100

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Re: Nitron Shock - which one?
« Reply #79 on: December 07, 2017, 08:36:30 PM »
My Nitron R1 came this morning, less than 2 weeks after ordering it  :002:
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