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Offline biscut1975

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Starting issue...Not sure if this is same issues hence new topic
« on: November 24, 2017, 10:56:34 AM »
Nipped out for 10 mins last night (with bike starting fine), stopped off at a hardware store and when I came back, thumbed the starter button and got nothing...nothing to indicate problem with battery but it was as though the clutch either wasn't engaged or the button itself was disconnected from the bike. After a few tries (and a few choice words) it fired up as though I had done something wrong or been pressing the wrong button or something! Is this the same issue as the other thread? bike is a 2016 XRT with 10K on the clock.

Any thoughts?

Thanks very much for any help anyone can give

Offline Tiggerton

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Re: Starting issue...Not sure if this is same issues hence new topic
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2017, 10:13:57 PM »
Put the bike in gear and then push the machine a few inches. This action will move the carbon brushes on the starter motor away from a potential dead spot on the commutator. If the bike then starts you may have a "dead spot" on the commutator. This dead spot is where a carbon build up has occurred, most likely by sticking brushes in their holders. I have a fibreglass commutator stick that removes carbon deposits from the commutator. In extreme cases you may have to undercut the commutator by cleaning out between the segments on the comm but in most cases a clean up of the commutator will suffice.

I am a new tiger 800 owner and have never yet had occasion to delve into the intricacies of the starter motor but have learned through maintaining 500 kilowatt
dc generators through to 12 volt automobile starter motors that in most cases, a simple  commutator clean up followed by freeing up carbon brushes in their brush holders will resolve starting issues.

Regards



Honda 90 c200, Norton Dominator 99, Triumph (Saint) T110, Triumph 750 T140 ES, Triumph Bantam Cub, Triumph Tiger Cub, BSA 650 Golden Flash, Honda CBF 1000, Triumph Sprint GT & a Tiger 800 XrX low.

Offline chuckxc

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Re: Starting issue...Not sure if this is same issues hence new topic
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2017, 12:31:31 AM »
Need to step in here, with respect, Tiggerton's advice is incorrect, the starter motor is not engaged with the engine when you push it. With 10K on the clock I wouldn't concern myself with the starter motor. The brushes and commutator should be clean.

More likely one of many interlock switched were not aligned,  e.g. kickstand, neutral sensor, clutch switch, kill switch etc.
Chalk it up to a one-off. If it happens again look for the obvious as mentioned.
Laterally unstable unless moving.

Offline Tiggerton

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Re: Starting issue...Not sure if this is same issues hence new topic
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2017, 03:40:01 PM »
*Originally Posted by chuckxc [+]
Need to step in here, with respect, Tiggerton's advice is incorrect, the starter motor is not engaged with the engine when you push it. With 10K on the clock I wouldn't concern myself with the starter motor. The brushes and commutator should be clean.

More likely one of many interlock switched were not aligned,  e.g. kickstand, neutral sensor, clutch switch, kill switch etc.
Chalk it up to a one-off. If it happens again look for the obvious as mentioned.
Yes. Was thinking about my old car. However carbonised spots on the comm often cause poor starting if the brushes happen to land on them after a previous starting procedure. Get the motor armature to rotate and try again. It happened on my CBF 1000. Just another check procedure.
Honda 90 c200, Norton Dominator 99, Triumph (Saint) T110, Triumph 750 T140 ES, Triumph Bantam Cub, Triumph Tiger Cub, BSA 650 Golden Flash, Honda CBF 1000, Triumph Sprint GT & a Tiger 800 XrX low.

Offline biscut1975

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Re: Starting issue...Not sure if this is same issues hence new topic
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2017, 08:43:53 PM »
*Originally Posted by chuckxc [+]
Need to step in here, with respect, Tiggerton's advice is incorrect, the starter motor is not engaged with the engine when you push it. With 10K on the clock I wouldn't concern myself with the starter motor. The brushes and commutator should be clean.

More likely one of many interlock switched were not aligned,  e.g. kickstand, neutral sensor, clutch switch, kill switch etc.
Chalk it up to a one-off. If it happens again look for the obvious as mentioned.

thanks very much for the reply, will see what happens if it happens again. Was at Motorcycle Live today and didnt have a repeat of the problem so hopefully it was a one off.

thanks again
DaveT

Offline biscut1975

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Re: Starting issue...Not sure if this is same issues hence new topic
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2018, 09:52:48 PM »
Ok, so was out for a ride earlier, bike working well till I stopped at Tesco for a few minutes. Realized I didn't have my wallet so was only away from the bike for a couple of minutes before returning and trying to start the bike again. Had the camera running at the time so managed to capture the starter issue. I had my finger on the starter button the whole time but the bike kind of coughed in to life after a couple of times trying, almost as though I pressed and released the button a few times before leaving it pressed long enough for it to cough in to life. Have managed to get it on film but not sure how to embed it on here or host it somewhere so others can see (10MB). Any idea's or thoughts? Will mention it when it goes in for the 12,000 mile service but really not happy if its only a year old and has an intermittent starter motor failure.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 10:00:17 PM by biscut1975 »

Offline biscut1975

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Re: Starting issue...Not sure if this is same issues hence new topic
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2018, 08:24:03 PM »
*Originally Posted by biscut1975 [+]
Ok, so was out for a ride earlier, bike working well till I stopped at Tesco for a few minutes. Realized I didn't have my wallet so was only away from the bike for a couple of minutes before returning and trying to start the bike again. Had the camera running at the time so managed to capture the starter issue. I had my finger on the starter button the whole time but the bike kind of coughed in to life after a couple of times trying, almost as though I pressed and released the button a few times before leaving it pressed long enough for it to cough in to life. Have managed to get it on film but not sure how to embed it on here or host it somewhere so others can see (10MB). Any idea's or thoughts? Will mention it when it goes in for the 12,000 mile service but really not happy if its only a year old and has an intermittent starter motor failure.

this time with video embedded I hope (helps if I read the post about how to embed video...sorry):

/>
« Last Edit: January 14, 2018, 08:30:34 PM by biscut1975 »

Offline chuckxc

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Re: Starting issue...Not sure if this is same issues hence new topic
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2018, 09:54:52 PM »
My 2012 does that now and then, but that's more of a  engine characteristic which sometimes happens after sitting after a run. Not the same behavior as the starter motor problem. Maybe vapor lock or some other warm engine anomaly.  Unless it happens regularly, I wouldn't be too concerned. Having said that, it's no trouble to check your starter motor cable connections and frame connection to make sure that are making good contact You need very good connections  with this starter motor. In fact I added an additional ground cable to lower the cranking resistance.
Laterally unstable unless moving.

Offline biscut1975

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Re: Starting issue...Not sure if this is same issues hence new topic
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2018, 01:37:58 PM »
*Originally Posted by chuckxc [+]
My 2012 does that now and then, but that's more of a  engine characteristic which sometimes happens after sitting after a run. Not the same behavior as the starter motor problem. Maybe vapor lock or some other warm engine anomaly.  Unless it happens regularly, I wouldn't be too concerned. Having said that, it's no trouble to check your starter motor cable connections and frame connection to make sure that are making good contact You need very good connections  with this starter motor. In fact I added an additional ground cable to lower the cranking resistance.

Hi Chuckxc
Thanks very much for the reply, it isnt regular but it does make me wonder if I am going to have problems getting home when out and its the last thing I would have expected from a 2016 bike. When you say vapor lock? what is getting locked where and is it a sensor that is causing the bike to either cough in to life or not start? Does seem to happen after the bike has been running for a while then stopped for a short amount of time so seems likely that could be the issue.

Thanks again
DaveT

Offline biscut1975

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Re: Starting issue...Not sure if this is same issues hence new topic
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2018, 09:20:11 PM »
 got the bike booked in for its 12k service and will get them to look at the problem too. Hopefully they will experience the issue while they have it...big ask but keeping fingers crossed 😊

 


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