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Offline ENGLISHBANDIT

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Re: Main Dealer Servicing or local Motorbike Shop?
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2018, 06:59:33 PM »
I used a big Triumph/ Ducati dealers in West Yorkshire well known as well.Got them to put a new cam chain tensioner on my old tiger. only to hear the man on the desk ask the mechanic who he gave him some bits back. Why he had not used the new gasket. The mechanic replied I just shoved a screw driver down it to hold it ( head was off doing valves)NOT the way it should be done to Triumph standards and not mine. The mechanic did not know I was behind him. And I did not know he was talking about my bike till he walked away. And I then said the the man on the desk is my bike done. And he said yes just finished and got my keys out of the bag the mechanic just gave him with my paper work in.I said was that him that just done my bike,he said yes. That’s  the service I got from Triumph. Would not give them the time of day. What they think is most people that buy there bikes don’t have a clue about maintaining a bike, and a lot don’t so they just take the mick on prices and are quite arrogant. I have been riding 36 years and have never come across a more arrogant breed of dealers. What they want to see coming through there doors is all the money all the gear but no idea. There must be a lot of them as they are doing well out of it. Valve check at 12000 miles 700 + please. There not mechanic they are technicians. So give them a different bike and see if they can fix that. I would not trust Triumph dealers at all. Like the other lad said it must be how they are trained. I do 90% of my own work but if I do have to go to a shop, not had to in 7 years or so apart from the Triumph valve check. I would go to my local old school real MECHANIC. And for that reason I will not buy another Triumph.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2018, 07:08:57 PM by ENGLISHBANDIT »
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Offline Paulhere

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Re: Main Dealer Servicing or local Motorbike Shop?
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2018, 10:16:07 PM »
The monkeys call themselves Technicians as if superior to a mechanic, not sure what to believe, had to google it. Still not sure. My own interpretation is:

A Mechanic is apprenticed to older experienced skilled Mechanics, been to college for several years & can make engineered repairs.

A Technician is somewhat proficient on computer having done short factory course, can diagnose a fault & replace a given electrical part or assembly.

http://www.differencebetween.net/language/words-language/difference-between-mechanic-and-technician/

No reason why Triumph mech/tech should be better or worse than for other makes. Anybody else remember Carnell group, Jap/HD dealers? Renowned for fitting tyres wrong way around, never learned from their mistakes. Went bust some 15 years ago. Most Triumph dealers used to be dealers of other makes also, this solus Triumph thing is fairly new, back then we got whatever mech/tech was next available.

Maybe the wages don't pay enough to keep the better boys in dealers. Nobody faults Muddy Sump (David Jones) or Clive Wood. Both Triumph trained, turned independent.

Saw somewhere time allocated for 12k service 4.5 hours? Impossible. I say that after watching Muddy Sump spend a all day on my Tiger Sport. He is slick. So what they do? Skip some of the service work. Do they do the cam timing adjustment on '15 on models? Doubtful. Do they skip shims when pushed on time?

Is it a lack of skill, a lack of allocated time, or a mix of both? That results in us getting a shoddy job & losing all confidence in dealers.

Dealers tell me average mileage is 2k/yr on bikes. Boys who do the miles & need proper servicing are a nuisance.

Rant over  :008:


Tiger800 XRx, Tiger Sport 1050, Ariel FH 650, Yam Serow 225.

Offline street tango

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Re: Main Dealer Servicing or local Motorbike Shop?
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2018, 10:34:43 PM »
*Originally Posted by Paulhere [+]
Nobody faults Muddy Sump (David Jones) or Clive Wood. Both Triumph trained, turned independent.

Saw somewhere time allocated for 12k service 4.5 hours? Impossible.

Yes. It takes Clive a full day working flat out. that's without problems He always got lots of sus linkages ready (all models) to go as it takes time to swap out bearings. A thing he sees time and time again as they are failing!! I dont know if David does that. I assume so being mobile and not a workshop

Another name for a technician is a boltie. Can't repair, just remove and bolt on a new part

Offline AvgBear

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Re: Main Dealer Servicing or local Motorbike Shop?
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2018, 03:39:36 PM »
*Originally Posted by street tango [+]
Yes. It takes Clive a full day working flat out.
If maintenance costs are an issue?, then a choice of equipment that is less maintenance-intensive is necessary.
Ferinstance: vehicles with hydraulic valve-lash adjustment, a single throttle body, iridium spark plugs, etc. (or, an all-electric m/c?)

*Originally Posted by street tango [+]
Another name for a technician is a boltie. Can't repair, just remove and bolt on a new part
There's hardly any (none, for all practical purposes) engine disassembly / major repair being done these days. The automotive / motorcycle technician (or, "boltie") must do routine services and diagnose faults -- then correctly repair any faults -- which is done by proper adjustment or replacing the faulty component ("bolting-in" a new part).
Mechanic work / engineering / machine-shop style repair is nowadays left to specialist shops -- like custom or restoration. In fact, many dealers don't admit bikes for service that are in need of such -- say, bikes over a certain age: over 10 years old / pre-newer-style / etc.
"When a man with money meets a man with experience, the man with experience gets the money and the man with money gets the experience."
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Offline Turbo100

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Re: Main Dealer Servicing or local Motorbike Shop?
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2018, 07:47:46 PM »
Paulhere hit on a valid point when he wrote "Maybe the wages don't pay enough to keep the better boys in dealers"

I have been in the vehicle repair trade for the last 50 years. Especially in the last 15 years I have seen in most service bays the attitude and expertise of the "technicians"  disappear. If they can't fix a problem by swapping new parts for old, at the customer's expense, until the fault goes away they are totally out of there depth. So that then leaves us with numpties on a living wage that are unable to operate a ratchet correctly.
The "technician" at Bill Smiths Chester is a prime example, walks around at a snail's pace, dragging his feet, long face, fag in the yard every 10 minutes and unable to even do the basic PDI operation of fitting the two alloy large headed slot screws that hold the hand guard on my new Tiger, used a small width screwdriver to tighten them, slipped off and ripped the alloy to bits, and he thought that was perfectly OK to do so, I spotted them on my inspection and the service manager said he would replace them on the 600 service, he did, only to do EXACTLY the same thing again and this time leave one not fully tightened. Put the wrong engine oil in, underfilled it, radiator header tank was 12mm below the bottom marker, reported he had taken the brake pins out to clean and grease them, he never touched them and tighten the oil filter so tight it took two people to untighten it, me with an oil filter wrench and my mate hitting a screwdriver through the filter to turn it the first 1/8 of a turn, the filter was totally distroyed when I eventualy got it off.
Unless I have a warranty problem my bike will never be touched by a dealer, especiall BS of Chester!!
I'm Not As Old As I Once Was !!

Offline Stevie.P

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Re: Main Dealer Servicing or local Motorbike Shop?
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2018, 06:30:11 PM »
*Originally Posted by Paulhere [+]
My own interpretation is:
A Mechanic is apprenticed to older experienced skilled Mechanics, been to college for several years & can make engineered repairs.

A Technician is somewhat proficient on computer having done short factory course, can diagnose a fault & replace a given electrical part or assembly.

Yes, a throw away society that repairs little due to high repair labour (not employee pay) charges and cheap manufacturing of components. My proper apprenticeship has given way to a simple NVQ that is currently a major issue at my place of employment. The latest, a female (x-bingo hall) cleaner to (NVQ) fitter in 12 months and on qualifying and first day had to ask how to drill a hole. She spends 1/3rd day on her phone, a 1/3rd outside smoking with her boyfriend and the other 1/3rd stood watching her so called work partner of the day doing the job. Unfortunately the guys know they can't say much as she is a bosses daughter.

Another guy from labourer to supervisor in about 2yrs via NVQ ... he recently decided that as the vehicle wouldn't start after refurbishment, tripping the start circuit breaker, that he should hold it in while the fitter tried again .... needless to say the circuit breaker and a good section of wiring went up in smoke, but sod all happened about it.

As an example I used to spend day in day out (Paxman Valenta) pulling cylinder heads, pistons, fork/blade rods, main bearing blocks, turbochargers and more for repair and changing injectors and fuel pumps units as routine service items. The latest generation of engines (MTU) offer only minor servicing and are covered by a usage contract that covers failure. Nightly the hours run are recorded and MTU paid accordingly (rumour around 300euros/hr), the engine may run 3yrs trouble free or go bang big time in 3 days and if it does MTU simply swop it out for a new engine no additional cost.

We have had a good number of x-garage mechanics taken on lately from the likes of Honda, Lexus and Mercedes and while they are good guys they all have little knowledge of the sort of repairs (not renewal) needed to keep (40yr) vehicles/trains going.
Also owned my 1979 Bonnie T140E from new!

We don't stop playing because we grow old .. WE GROW OLD BECAUSE WE STOP PLAYING!!!


Offline street tango

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Re: Main Dealer Servicing or local Motorbike Shop?
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2018, 06:56:24 PM »
Bikes now are becoming more and more electronically controlled.  A good understanding of electronically is therefore required.
Ask a tech to explain to you Ohm's law. Just watch the look on his face.

Offline Stevie.P

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Re: Main Dealer Servicing or local Motorbike Shop?
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2018, 07:14:18 PM »
*Originally Posted by street tango [+]
Ask a tech to explain to you Ohm's law. Just watch the look on his face.

... or how to fix (lace) a cracked engine block.  :164: :027: :008:
Also owned my 1979 Bonnie T140E from new!

We don't stop playing because we grow old .. WE GROW OLD BECAUSE WE STOP PLAYING!!!


Offline street tango

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Re: Main Dealer Servicing or local Motorbike Shop?
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2018, 07:28:43 PM »
*Originally Posted by Stevie.P [+]
... or how to fix (lace) a cracked engine block.  :164: :027: :008:
The list goes on.
 But luckily I do know a few good ones. But they are hard to find!

Offline ENGLISHBANDIT

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Re: Main Dealer Servicing or local Motorbike Shop?
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2018, 09:11:28 PM »
Its across the board sadly. My ford custom van went in 4 weeks ago to have the gear box seal replaced, common on the fords so a young lad did it ( did not know this at the time) after 3 weeks. Thought I would check under the van to make sure everything was right. Long story short the kid damaged the drive shaft seal when putting the gear box back, bloody thing was leaking oil. Good job I spotted it. So today the gear box was out again and they replaced the seal. The little sh*t then gives me my keys back and says I know your funny about your van so I topped up the gear box oil for you ?. I had to,point out to him. That if a vehicle comes in with a leaking gear box and they fix the leak. You have to check and top up the flipping oil, you did not do me a favour.But these dealers are paying 18 ,19 year olds 8 an hour to work on people vehicle. And these lads only know how to take something of and put something back. But they do not know how gentle or careful things should be done. That comes from years of experience and love of the job and years of working on your own stuff. They just dont have it. You could drive in with both wheels missing but when they plug the vehicle in to the diagnostics machine if it does not tell them the wheels are missing. They dont know what to do.thank god my van is 3 years old in March and then out of warranty. If they had fixed my gear box out of warranty. I would have had to pay again for them damaging my seal as you know and I know they would have said it was a different problem. Off subject a bit. But today unless you can find a good local garage where the owner is the mechanic and takes pride in his work and rep. All you get is people going in Monday to Friday for a wage and they dont give a toss.
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