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Offline freeware

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Re: Hot Starting Issues
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2018, 11:08:38 PM »
I had the same issues when bike was hot - I've managed to salvage own starter motor.

Offline Paulhere

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Re: Hot Starting Issues
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2018, 09:15:13 AM »
*Originally Posted by jeffa [+]
Battery at 12.6 volts at rest is low, it should be at least 13.2 volts, 6 cells at 2.2 volts = 13.2.    Start your bike and put your lights on full, take a voltage reading across the battery terminals and tell what voltage you are getting.

Where you got that from?

See link below from Yuasa, each cell of a 12v battery at 100% = 2.1v... 12.6v is correct.

http://www.yuasabatteries.com/faqs.php?action=1&id=30
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Offline Rtwo

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Re: Hot Starting Issues
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2018, 04:09:56 PM »
This sites gives a range of tests that could be useful

http://www.labscopes.com/index_files/Page409.htm

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Offline smokekitty

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Re: Hot Starting Issues
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2018, 01:24:05 AM »
I'll try to test the battery again next time I have access to a DMM. (Still need to get my own). I like the tip on removing surface charge before testing battery at rest by keeping high beams on for 30 seconds prior to testing. I think I'll also check the starter relay to see if that's functioning. Hopefully do the tests while hot and cold to see if there is a difference. At 23700 miles it seems premature for a starter failure. But apparently many people have had issues with the early tigers starters. Does anyone know if the starter is constant mesh or does it engage only when starting? That would explain them burning up quick.

Offline AvgBear

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Re: Hot Starting Issues
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2018, 03:26:18 AM »
*Originally Posted by smokekitty [+]
I'll try to test the battery again next time I have access to a DMM.
Does anyone know if the starter is constant mesh or does it engage only when starting? That would explain them burning up quick.
Another good source of battery info is one of the latest "smart" battery chargers -- preferably one with a window read-out that will tell what's what with the battery and even notify of battery failure.
With modern sealed batteries, DMMs (although good...) seem to have their limits..?
As to the T800's starter: it's only engaged, electrically, when the starter solenoid sends power to it.
Mechanically, when it's spinning it turns a train of starter-drive gears that engage the crankshaft through a one-way sprag device. Once the crankshaft spins faster than the starter-drive gear train, the sprag is ineffective/idle.
The T800's Denso starter motor comes from the Tri. 675 (as does most of the engine) and may be a little under-specc'd for the 800? Similarly, the size '16' battery may also be marginal? If low voltage and/or high load are present, then high current flows in the starter components and (if the parts are marginal?) may tend to lead to an early demise.
(also, starter motors - generally - are designed for only brief use -- a few seconds at-a-time)
It's been generally believed (on this forum) that Triumph got some poor starters from Denso? And some starter/component part numbers were reported superseded.
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Offline smokekitty

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Re: Hot Starting Issues
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2018, 04:55:16 AM »
Good to know. If the battery checks out I will replace the starter (maybe with a ricks motorsport starter - 200 vs 400 dollars  :155:) as it seems to be the likely culprit. Unless someone wants to buy it before I get around to it - at a discounted rate of course  :001:

Offline Paulhere

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Re: Hot Starting Issues
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2018, 08:26:42 AM »
*Originally Posted by AvgBear [+]
The T800's Denso starter motor comes from the Tri. 675 (as does most of the engine) and may be a little under-specc'd for the 800? Similarly, the size '16' battery may also be marginal? If low voltage and/or high load are present, then high current flows in the starter components and (if the parts are marginal?) may tend to lead to an early demise.

Interesting theory. The 675's battery is a YTX9 with only 120cca, The T800's is a YTX16 with 230cca, almost double the power/cold cranking amps.
Triumph considered it necessary to fit a bigger & better battery to the 800 than even the T1050's YTX12 with only 180cca & also the later Tiger sports YTX14 with 200cca. Yet they retained the same starter motor as the 675.
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Offline smokekitty

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Re: Hot Starting Issues
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2018, 04:10:50 AM »
Yeah it does seem strange to have such a massive battery and small starter. Maybe to make up for the puny starter they thought a giant battery would help. Or maybe because they thought people would install a lot of electrical accessories on the t800.

Offline AvgBear

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Re: Hot Starting Issues
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2018, 03:51:12 PM »
Indeed, but so many variables need to be considered (especially when comparing other completely different models). Sticking with the 675/800 comparison -- longer stroke may take more cranking power as well as less valve overlap may create more difficult cranking?
And, yes, a bigger battery probably helps..?
When comparing to other Triumphs, the whole starter-drive gear train reduction may need to be known as well as the starter motor output.
As to the amount of electrical accessories that may be fitted: that's primarily a function of alternator output (and the T800 has plenty). The primary job of the battery is to start the engine (along with the starter motor and its attendant parts).
« Last Edit: March 17, 2018, 03:58:52 PM by AvgBear »
Old poem from 'back in the day':
You'll never wear out the Indian Scout -- or its brother the Indian Chief.
They're built like rocks to take hard knocks -- it's the Harleys that give all the grief.

Offline smokekitty

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Re: Hot Starting Issues
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2018, 05:28:30 PM »
Good point. You think Triumph would catch wind of all these starter problems and beef it up a bit. But I guess since most of the problems occur out of warranty they couldn't be bothered? Frustrating indeed.

 


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