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Offline Roel1964

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Re: Low oil pressure light
« Reply #190 on: January 20, 2019, 12:20:14 PM »
*Originally Posted by SOHUTAA [+]
I am afraid to misunderstand !!
All these worries would have been generated only because of the non-replacement of the coolant?
Is it this ?

I'm not 100% sure that (1) the prematurely worn bearings and (2) the deteriorated coolant causing rust/gasket seal flake, that might have clogged up the radiator/heat exchanger, are related. If the bearings wear faster when they run at a higher temperature then normal for years and years, then maybe the cooling problem caused the higher temperatures.
The big end journals had suffered the most, as i can see in my measurements. They come closest to the hot cylinders. On top of that : there are 3 oil sprayers that spray the oil from 3 of the main bearings against the bottom of the 3 cylinders, to cool them down. If the oil pressure is already suffering, i can imagine that the sprayers also lose some effectiveness, because they spray less hard ? So then the cylinders also become hotter.
Can the temperature of the bearings raise enough to cause premature wear, without raising the temperature of the coolant into an overheating-situation ?
I don't know.

*Originally Posted by SOHUTAA [+]
The Tiger seems to be from 2011, and this liquid would be original?
Can we replace this HD4X Hybrid OAT with a coolant for cars, compatible with aluminum alloys?

Maybe the original liquid was mixed with a non-OAT coolant with the same or similar color. When i started investigating the problem, i flushed the coolant and the color was greenish. I'm not sure what the color of the original OAT coolant from the Triumph factory is. I replaced it with OAT coolant from Castrol (Radicool) which was orange/red. All i know is that the last time that i let the coolant out to disassemble the engine, there was no rust and no other particles in the coolant at all. The coolant had been in there for a few 1000 km. So it sure stopped the rust.

There are several types of metal and non-metal that the coolant comes in contact with : aluminium (water galleries), steel (cylinder liners, head gasket), copper (heat exchanger)...,
so you need coolant that is is friendly to all these metal types. I will stick to what the service manual says : Hybrid OAT.

Offline SOHUTAA

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Re: Low oil pressure light
« Reply #191 on: January 20, 2019, 08:00:49 PM »
Thank you for these prcisions.

Offline herdygerdy

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Re: Low oil pressure light
« Reply #192 on: January 21, 2019, 10:23:51 AM »
Seems like you are making steady progress Roel, thanks again for having us along on such a PITA journey, none of which has been your doing.

What are your plans from here?  New big end and main bearings, clean out all the rust etc, new head gasket then put it back together?  If yes, on a scale of 1-10, (1 = no chance, 10 = hell yeah!), how confident are you that you will have solved the low oil pressure light issue?

Is there a way to ensure ALL oil galleries, not to mention the big end 'squirters' and oil pump (IIRC you've done that one already?) are all surgically clean and all rust removed before putting it back into one piece?  It would be a real heart breaker if you did all this excellent, well thought out and very methodical analysis, diagnosis and problem resolution only to find the low oil pressure light is still "a thing".

With you in spirit Roel, even if only from upside down on the other side of this big ass rock...

Cheers....herdygerdy

Offline AvgBear

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Re: Low oil pressure light
« Reply #193 on: January 21, 2019, 08:33:39 PM »
*Originally Posted by Roel1964 [+]
Well, i'm sure that it does not look like a healthy head gasket.
I'm surprised that it didn't already leak.
If it had been leaking?, it could've caused higher than normal temps and ethylene glycol anti-freeze has been a known corrupter of plain metal bearings when mixed with (contaminated) engine oil.
Reportedly, antifreeze ruins motor oil's lubricating abilities - when mixed - and affects the crankshaft bearings notably.
"Working on a motorcycle, working well, caring, is to become part of a process, to achieve an inner peace of mind.
The motorcycle is primarily a mental phenomenon."
Robert M. Pirsig

Offline Roel1964

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Re: Low oil pressure light
« Reply #194 on: March 05, 2019, 10:34:37 PM »
*Originally Posted by AvgBear [+]
If it had been leaking?, it could've caused higher than normal temps and ethylene glycol anti-freeze has been a known corrupter of plain metal bearings when mixed with (contaminated) engine oil.
Reportedly, antifreeze ruins motor oil's lubricating abilities - when mixed - and affects the crankshaft bearings notably.

Thanks AvgBear, that is a very good one !  :020:
Considering the corrosion of the head gasket and the pressures involved, that is a possible and more obvious cause of the premature bearing wear. Even a small leak can
cause damage over 1000's of miles.

For some time i suspected the sealing of the cylinder liners, because the silicone sealer (Threebond 1215) of the cylinder liners comes in direct contact with the cooling water.
When the cooling water becomes acidic, i thought it might have been eating away the silicone sealer, so water could enter the crankcase via the cylinder liners. But i guess the
sealer can withstand acids.
Considering the corrosion of the head gasket, the idea of AvgBear is much more relevant.

Offline Roel1964

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Re: Low oil pressure light
« Reply #195 on: March 05, 2019, 10:52:51 PM »
Meanwhile i replaced the main and big end bearings, polished the crankshaft journals and also the camshaft journals and re-assembled the engine.
I checked the oil pressure with an oil pressure gauge and was surprised that the oil pressure at idle was not a hell lot more with the new bearings.
The pressure still goes below 1 bar at idle and comes close to 0.3 bar when the engine is warmed up (15 minutes of idling), but it does not sink below 0.2 bar as
before the whole rebuild adventure. So i was a little disappointed, but maybe this little change is enough to keep the oil pressure sensor from tripping in hot weather
or when riding in a traffic jam so the bike gets no riding wind.

I hope that the oil light will stay off when the ambient temperature is above 25 degrees in the summer.

I did a test-ride of about half an hour today and everything feels and sounds good. The engine feels smooth as before and sounds the same as before.
The oil light did not come on, but at low speed or cold weather, the problem did not show anyway.
When the weather is a bit better, i will start using the bike for commuting to work and get some extra test-miles.
So i cross my fingers and hope i will not see the oil light ever again....or i will cut the sensor wire ! ;-)

This is a picture of all the parts (seals, fixings, bolts, lock nuts, head bolts, big end bearing bolts....) that i replaced while re-assembling the engine :


Offline Turbotom

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Re: Low oil pressure light
« Reply #196 on: March 06, 2019, 06:14:16 AM »
Top Job :152: I hope the problem is gone.

Tom
Tiger 800 XRx 2015 caspian blue

Offline SOHUTAA

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Re: Low oil pressure light
« Reply #197 on: March 06, 2019, 04:57:45 PM »
Congratulations on this wonderful job !!

Offline herdygerdy

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Re: Low oil pressure light
« Reply #198 on: March 06, 2019, 05:21:42 PM »
So very pleased you are now back on the road and fingers & legs crossed that pesky oil light issue is now resigned permanently to your past. 

Thank you for sharing your very scientific, methodical and logical approach to diagnosing and solving this problem.  Your tenacity and and ability to get to grips with, and learn from this experience has been exemplary and is a fine example to us all.

Great job so now time to get out there and enjoy. 

Of course, it begs the question, what's next on your radar? - are you keeping it or do you now feel you can move it on to it's next owner with confidence?

Offline Roel1964

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Re: Low oil pressure light
« Reply #199 on: March 06, 2019, 05:38:18 PM »
Thank you all for the hints, tips, ideas and moral support !
This forum has been very helpful in trying to figure out what could have caused this strange and rare problem.
It took a lot of time and effort, but i learned quite a lot about engines in all these months.
With sharing all this, i hope it might help others that have similar problems or just to get some insight in oil pressure problems, but then they sure have a damn lot to read !!  :001:



 


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