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Online Stevie.P

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Vehicle speed sensor malfunction
« on: April 29, 2018, 11:44:22 PM »
Bad day all round. Felt good yesterday to renew chain and sprockets with better than factory fitted spec kit. Knew that today I needed to look at another issue, 3 fault light permanently on, MIL, ABS and T/C. But before that I checked my charge rate as I had noticed pulsating lights and found my regulator/rectifier is screwed ( https://www.tiger800.co.uk/index.php/topic,22590.10.html ).

So, having had a few incidence of intermittent fault lights back in about November, only occasionally and clearing after about 30-45secs, the fault returned permanently about 10 days ago so I stopped using the bike as I had no speedo. I did the 'info button, UP, ignition on' routine as a quick look and got codes P0500 and P1521.
P0500 Vehicle speed sensor malfunction
P1521 Lost communication with ABS
So any F or R sensor fault would answer for the P1521 code I thought and cause the combination of MIL, ABS and T/C fault, but as speedo was lost I initially suspected (hoped) the rear ABS sensor was at fault (as this provides the speedo signal) and ordered a 2nd hand one from a 2016 XRt on ebay, for a quarter of new price and had it ready to fit.
Fitted it and started bike up (on centre stand) and fault lights still on. :084:

So I thought maybe I needed to clear the stored codes and retry, so hooked up laptop and fired up 'Tigertool.

No problem connecting ...


... DTC tab confirmed earlier codes ...


... so I reset fault codes ...


... and moved to ABS tab ...

... which showed the 2 errors but no info, the bottom showing 'ABS ECU read error'.

Info tab checked just for interest.


I realised that maybe I should have also looked at the ABS tab before resetting the DTC tab codes, so I disconnected the laptop and cable and started the bike. Initially looked good in neutral, put it in 1st and straight away 3 fault lights, so switched off, now DTC codes back and hooked laptop back up.

This time however the DTC tab showed the faults again but then did not highlight the 'reset DTC' box, showing ABS ECU read error same as previously only on the ABS tab ...


... and the ABS tab exactly as previously.


Although not for the later bikes I tried to get some guidance from the early model workshop manual. This indicates:
P0500 Rear wheel speed sensor - Tiger 800 and Tiger 800XC with ABS - Refer to C1613
P1521 Fault in CAN communication between ECM and ABS modulator

C1613 Rear wheel speed sensor circuit fault -
Action:
Ensure ABS ECM connector is secure.
Ensure wheel speed sensor connector is secure.
Disconnect ABS ECM connector and proceed to pinpoint test 1 :-

Trying to follow that I clearly need to start stripping parts off for access to check the ECU and ABS modulator connectors first for and then follow the numerous tests listed which I assume will check out the wiring between the 2 components. The wiring is clearly static between the 2 so I have a bad feeling one or both components have (conveniently 8 months out of warranty) developed an internal fault rather than a broken wire. The component prices new are horrendous, ECU 1284 and ABS modulator 1150. :005:

I don't know if the faulty reg/rec and over voltage could have caused this, although the lights weren't pulsing back in November when the fault intermittently started and plenty of others seem to have had reg/rec failure without (I assume) major damage to other components, other than possibly the battery?

My love and enjoyment of this bike is rapidly disappearing. :003:
« Last Edit: April 29, 2018, 11:52:38 PM by Stevie.P »
Also owned my 1979 Bonnie T140E from new!

We don't stop playing because we grow old .. WE GROW OLD BECAUSE WE STOP PLAYING!!!


Offline K1W1

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Re: Vehicle speed sensor malfunction
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2018, 02:15:35 AM »
I assume that you had the back wheel out to change the sprocket because all three of those faults could be caused by incorrectly refitting the back wheel and the ABS sensor on the back wheel.

Online T800XC

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Re: Vehicle speed sensor malfunction
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2018, 06:36:21 AM »
Steve, I'll send you a debug version of TigerTool that will allow you to clear the ABS codes. There's a known bug in V2 that doesn't display code info or allow reset access if there's more than one ABS error code. That will at least allow you to clear the ABS codes and try again.

I doubt if either of your ECUs or their associated wiring are faulty but I have seen some flaky comms issues with the ABS ECU occasionally.
  
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Online Stevie.P

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Re: Vehicle speed sensor malfunction
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2018, 08:47:21 AM »
*Originally Posted by K1W1 [+]
I assume that you had the back wheel out to change the sprocket because all three of those faults could be caused by incorrectly refitting the back wheel and the ABS sensor on the back wheel.

I can rule that out, back wheel was out Saturday to change rear sprocket but fault occurred about 10 days ago. Prior to that the wheel was last out for a new tyre ... about 6k miles/1yr ago.
Also owned my 1979 Bonnie T140E from new!

We don't stop playing because we grow old .. WE GROW OLD BECAUSE WE STOP PLAYING!!!


Online Stevie.P

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Re: Vehicle speed sensor malfunction
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2018, 08:57:56 AM »
*Originally Posted by T800XC [+]
Steve, I'll send you a debug version of TigerTool that will allow you to clear the ABS codes. There's a known bug in V2 that doesn't display code info or allow reset access if there's more than one ABS error code. That will at least allow you to clear the ABS codes and try again.

I doubt if either of your ECUs or their associated wiring are faulty but I have seen some flaky comms issues with the ABS ECU occasionally.

That would be great, always still hope that it was the rear sensor that I changed and just the ECU memory needs clearing?  :027: This electronickery is beyond me, not to bad with the old fashioned vehicle electrics. Problem is today is accounted for and back to work tomorrow for days, then 4 rest days and then would have done 2 nights and taken 2 nights off for the Megameet weekend so not a lot of time to sort and weather dependant. Also have to source a reg/rec and strip the bike to sort that as well.
Do you need my email address to forward the debug program (and hopefully idiot instructions  :148: ) or will it PM to me? Another big thanks.  :028:
Also owned my 1979 Bonnie T140E from new!

We don't stop playing because we grow old .. WE GROW OLD BECAUSE WE STOP PLAYING!!!


Online T800XC

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Re: Vehicle speed sensor malfunction
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2018, 09:28:57 AM »
I'll PM a download link later. DONE
« Last Edit: April 30, 2018, 10:27:10 AM by T800XC »
  
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Online Stevie.P

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Re: Vehicle speed sensor malfunction
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2018, 10:45:53 AM »
Received, thanks. :002:

Hopefully get a chance late afternoon to give it a try and will keep you updated. :028:
Also owned my 1979 Bonnie T140E from new!

We don't stop playing because we grow old .. WE GROW OLD BECAUSE WE STOP PLAYING!!!


Online Stevie.P

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Re: Vehicle speed sensor malfunction
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2018, 09:26:03 PM »
:046:

Fingers crossed ... positive progress news.

On centre stand obviously ...




... only flashing light the ABS one, which is correct as the front wheel was stationary. :152:
Also owned my 1979 Bonnie T140E from new!

We don't stop playing because we grow old .. WE GROW OLD BECAUSE WE STOP PLAYING!!!


Online Stevie.P

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Re: Vehicle speed sensor malfunction
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2018, 09:56:07 PM »
Ok, so how did I get to the above result ... partly through luck I reckon, but if my experience can be condensed to saving someone in the future the same grief then I can justify the long winded following write up. :211:

Following on from yesterday T800XC, as promised, sent me a debug version of Tigertool and mid afternoon I was able to set too with further investigation.

Hooked up the laptop as normal and started the program ...


... and moved to rechecking the DTC codes ...



... and the ABS codes.



At this point note the 2 new fault codes (C1661/C1662) I didn't have any previous knowledge of, not showing up through the basic 'info button, UP, ignition on' method.

Then clearing the ABS codes ...


... and the DTC codes.


Followed by rechecking the codes were clear.




Also owned my 1979 Bonnie T140E from new!

We don't stop playing because we grow old .. WE GROW OLD BECAUSE WE STOP PLAYING!!!


Online Stevie.P

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Re: Vehicle speed sensor malfunction
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2018, 10:32:29 PM »
Having cleared the fault codes I disconnected the laptop and started the bike up. About 5 seconds of normal flashing ABS light the other 2 fault lights reappeared.

I decided to again connect the laptop to reconfirm the previous codes ...

The DTC codes were the same, P0500/P1521 ... but this time there was only the one code, C1662, on the ABS tab.


So I disconnected the laptop and referred back to the workshop manual regarding the C1662 code ...


...  :046: things started to make sense. The faulty charging, which I only checked as an after thought due to another members comment about pulsating headlights, looked responsible after all. As the speedo issue had been intermittent months ago and gone away this would never had been on my radar based on the original 2 fault codes and no reason to suspect the reg/rec.

Taking it as read that test 1, 2 and 3 passed it made sense at test 4. It would appear most likely that other members with reg/rec issues haven't had such a bad (or caught it earlier) failure and their overvoltage was luckily under the threshold that triggered C1662 and created the 3 fault light scenario I have just been through.

So having made a quick query here regarding removal of the reg/rec wiring connectors I found myself actually removing the faulty item without any need for radiator removal as described in the workshop manual. Once removed I reconnected the laptop, ran Tigertool again, cleared the DTC and ABS fault codes and rechecked them ...




... and with that disconnected the laptop and started the bike up ... resulting in my pics above of a fully working speedo with no additional fault lights (just a low battery message as runing purely on the battery with no charging). So as posted over on the reg/rec thread I have ordered a s/h one from ebay and will hopefully get it fitted Saturday and make the Megameet at Gloucester the following weekend

So 2 things:
I hope that possibly this thread might help someone in the future ...
and a special big 'THANK YOU' to T800XC and his brilliant and free 'Tigertool program, a few drinks on me (for T800XC only) for sure. :123: :031:

Even the cost of the unnecessary s/h rear sensor cable (25) and the s/h reg/rec (50) only comes to an hours Triumph labour, which if lucky they would have claimed for investigation/labour and then charged me 200 for a new reg/rec and goodness knows how much labour, probably claiming for radiator removal and coolant change?
Does feel good to have (fingers crossed) diagnosed and sorted it and restored some faith .... translated, spent a lot less money than I thought might have transpired, I certainly had visions of many pounds signs after looking at ECU and ABS modulator prices. :152:

Hopefully next weekend I'll be updating this thread to confirm success.  :047:
Also owned my 1979 Bonnie T140E from new!

We don't stop playing because we grow old .. WE GROW OLD BECAUSE WE STOP PLAYING!!!


 


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