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Offline Paulhere

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Re: Smaller Master Cylinder on Tiger
« Reply #70 on: February 15, 2019, 09:21:16 AM »
My problem with the brakes is not the feel, it is the performance. They are cheap budget callipers. As the saying goes, you can't polish a turd. Each to their own on that, carry on if it keeps you happy.
Current bikes Tiger800 XRx, Tiger Sport 1050, Ariel FH 650, Yam Serow 225.

Offline Kris

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Re: Smaller Master Cylinder on Tiger
« Reply #71 on: February 15, 2019, 02:58:33 PM »
*Originally Posted by Paulhere [+]
My problem with the brakes is not the feel, it is the performance. They are cheap budget callipers. As the saying goes, you can't polish a turd. Each to their own on that, carry on if it keeps you happy.

a turd can be polished a little :) .  the whole brake set up of Tiger is crap, but I managed to come to a place where I feel confident in braking - galfer rotors/pads, and smaller mc.  it make a hell of a  difference. it is still not in a league  with my Versys in which I have brembo monoblock radial callipers and radial mc, but it is good enough for my purposes...

Offline Newhorizons

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Re: Smaller Master Cylinder on Tiger
« Reply #72 on: June 13, 2019, 01:08:55 PM »
Not wanting to poke the Lion and restart some attitudes but have just been through my brakes and thought that I would share.

1.Got to get sintered pads.

2.Search for Muddy Sumps video on how to clean the calipers, grease the pins, grease the boots etc.

3.*What made the 'quantum' difference was easing out the pistons, (just a small piece of wood so that they dont pop) cleaning them with brake cleaner, wiping them down, smearing some rubber grease over the pistons then using an old set of circlip pliers and a few rubber blocks I was able to turn/rotate them in their caliper. It does work.

4.Now they were 'freed up' so eased them back into place, wiped away the excess grease, lubed all the pins etc and refitted.

5.Quick ride to re bed the shoes and noticed that I was back to 2 fingers but a slight bit spongy.
On closer inspection I realised that the backing plate was slightly twisted as the holes in the pad were slightly out which is why it was hard to put the mounting pin back in.
So the plate was twisted. (one side only) So pulled it down and filed out the pad hole a bit to ensure that the pin holes aligned and the plate/claws sat neat on the pad.

This has all but eliminated the spongy feel, totally got rid of the woody feel and its easy to dive the front at will coming up to the lights etc.... 2 fingers.

HEAPS Better, so with new pads and cleaning up the pistons/calipers its a whole new front braking system.

Same on the rear and a small bit of anti seize on the piston edge onto the pad and voila, no sqweeling and it bites and squats....gotta love that.

All up $100 Oz for 2 sets of pads and a few hours.

Just do it !!

(Kris has a valid point - given the same service work was done - however I feel this will get you close to what they should be like for a bike of this caliber)

 

Offline Kris

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Re: Smaller Master Cylinder on Tiger
« Reply #73 on: June 14, 2019, 08:33:29 AM »
*Originally Posted by Kris [+]
a turd can be polished a little :) .  the whole brake set up of Tiger is crap, but I managed to come to a place where I feel confident in braking - galfer rotors/pads, and smaller mc.  it make a hell of a  difference. it is still not in a league  with my Versys in which I have brembo monoblock radial callipers and radial mc, but it is good enough for my purposes...
*Originally Posted by Newhorizons [+]
Not wanting to poke the Lion and restart some attitudes but have just been through my brakes and thought that I would share.

1.Got to get sintered pads.

2.Search for Muddy Sumps video on how to clean the calipers, grease the pins, grease the boots etc.

3.*What made the 'quantum' difference was easing out the pistons, (just a small piece of wood so that they dont pop) cleaning them with brake cleaner, wiping them down, smearing some rubber grease over the pistons then using an old set of circlip pliers and a few rubber blocks I was able to turn/rotate them in their caliper. It does work.

4.Now they were 'freed up' so eased them back into place, wiped away the excess grease, lubed all the pins etc and refitted.

5.Quick ride to re bed the shoes and noticed that I was back to 2 fingers but a slight bit spongy.
On closer inspection I realised that the backing plate was slightly twisted as the holes in the pad were slightly out which is why it was hard to put the mounting pin back in.
So the plate was twisted. (one side only) So pulled it down and filed out the pad hole a bit to ensure that the pin holes aligned and the plate/claws sat neat on the pad.

This has all but eliminated the spongy feel, totally got rid of the woody feel and its easy to dive the front at will coming up to the lights etc.... 2 fingers.

HEAPS Better, so with new pads and cleaning up the pistons/calipers its a whole new front braking system.

Same on the rear and a small bit of anti seize on the piston edge onto the pad and voila, no sqweeling and it bites and squats....gotta love that.

All up $100 Oz for 2 sets of pads and a few hours.

Just do it !!

(Kris has a valid point - given the same service work was done - however I feel this will get you close to what they should be like for a bike of this caliber)

which year is your bike?  it is great that you improved your brakes so much! did you also bleed your brake fluid? 

if you change your MC to 1/2" or 12.7mm, you will get a double improvement!

Offline Newhorizons

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Re: Smaller Master Cylinder on Tiger
« Reply #74 on: June 16, 2019, 11:29:27 AM »
Hey Kris, got a 2015 XCx and my brakes had 'no feel' or emergency stopping power like the comments in this thread. It slowed down at best.

I got dealer software when I bought the bike but haven't been able to get the software to connect (drivers?) and need to find someone to get me started.

So I haven't tried bleeding the brakes, and from what I have read you need the ABS system to open up so that all the system can be bled properly.... dealer tool.

Maybe there is a small bit of improvement to be had?? However I have put so much time into setting the bike up, next level improved braking will come as a post trip service probably.
 
However, they are still no comparison to my old 96 Bandit which is running Sintered pads, Goodridge lines & Chinese aftermarket rotors. So apart from the Rotors it should be in the ball park.
Admittedly I have twin pistons on each side of the Bandit caliper (=4 pot), rather than 2  with pins and rubbers etc - maybe that's what Triumph should have done?

Okay so its a few dollars and more time to bleed but this bike can go just as fast and should pull up the same in my book.

Its nice to have that extra grab if you really need it, and typically that is an emergency stop or emergency speed drop while skippy plays chicken on your bit of road. Lets face it if the ABS works then the chance of lock up should be managed anyway, so more should be safer.

So not a finished Project but in a better place than I was last month.  Cheers.

 

Offline Kris

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Re: Smaller Master Cylinder on Tiger
« Reply #75 on: June 16, 2019, 03:43:04 PM »
*Originally Posted by Newhorizons [+]
Hey Kris, got a 2015 XCx and my brakes had 'no feel' or emergency stopping power like the comments in this thread. It slowed down at best.

I got dealer software when I bought the bike but haven't been able to get the software to connect (drivers?) and need to find someone to get me started.

So I haven't tried bleeding the brakes, and from what I have read you need the ABS system to open up so that all the system can be bled properly.... dealer tool.

Maybe there is a small bit of improvement to be had?? However I have put so much time into setting the bike up, next level improved braking will come as a post trip service probably.
 
However, they are still no comparison to my old 96 Bandit which is running Sintered pads, Goodridge lines & Chinese aftermarket rotors. So apart from the Rotors it should be in the ball park.
Admittedly I have twin pistons on each side of the Bandit caliper (=4 pot), rather than 2  with pins and rubbers etc - maybe that's what Triumph should have done?

Okay so its a few dollars and more time to bleed but this bike can go just as fast and should pull up the same in my book.

Its nice to have that extra grab if you really need it, and typically that is an emergency stop or emergency speed drop while skippy plays chicken on your bit of road. Lets face it if the ABS works then the chance of lock up should be managed anyway, so more should be safer.

So not a finished Project but in a better place than I was last month.  Cheers.

Hey Newhorizons, you need dealer tool to FULLY bleed the brakes, but if after the regular bleeding, you ride and brake hard, so that ABS engages, you can open these ports in this way as well and then bleed again.  But. perhaps you need to update something for the Dealer Tool to work? 

You cannot get the same brakes with Tiger as with 4-pot (monoblock system).  The brakes on Tiger are the 'poor person' brakes.  However, as I mentioned on this thread, replacing the 14mm master cylinder with 1/2" MC will make a HUGE difference.  the oem MC is too wooden and unbearably hard.  try 12.7mm MC and you will be astonished what difference it makes to your braking experience.  Personally, I used the MC from Vulcan S which has similar size of the brake fluid reservoir, but smaller 12.7mm piston bore. 

 


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