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Online Tiggerton

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Re: Fitting 'Beak' to 2018 800 XRt?
« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2019, 09:56:57 PM »
What an absolutely useless piece of kit. Anybody agree with me ?
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Online Paulhere

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Re: Fitting 'Beak' to 2018 800 XRt?
« Reply #21 on: June 16, 2019, 10:07:59 AM »
*Originally Posted by Tiggerton [+]
What an absolutely useless piece of kit. Anybody agree with me ?

 :062: Ha, aye m8, bit like the panniers & top box that feel full when empty & don't hold owt. The bike looks unfinished without the beak imo but yeah, useless, likr huggers that don't stop crud eh.  :152:
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Offline AvgBear

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Re: Fitting 'Beak' to 2018 800 XRt?
« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2019, 07:00:05 PM »
The "function" of a "beak" is similar to that of the tail-feathers on a peacock (without the sex involvement...).
It's about "appearance" and whether an "adventure bike" must have one (or not).
Cast wheels v/s wire-spoked wheels may fall into a similar category?
One famous m/c manufacturer built bikes with the gas tank under the seat -- then (re-thinking) moved the gas tank back to its traditional place.
The form/function/style battle continues...
"Working on a motorcycle, working well, caring, is to become part of a process, to achieve an inner peace of mind.
The motorcycle is primarily a mental phenomenon."
Robert M. Pirsig

Offline ubermick

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Re: Fitting 'Beak' to 2018 800 XRt?
« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2019, 07:18:04 PM »
*Originally Posted by AvgBear [+]
The "function" of a "beak" is similar to that of the tail-feathers on a peacock (without the sex involvement...).
It's about "appearance" and whether an "adventure bike" must have one (or not).
Cast wheels v/s wire-spoked wheels may fall into a similar category?
One famous m/c manufacturer built bikes with the gas tank under the seat -- then (re-thinking) moved the gas tank back to its traditional place.
The form/function/style battle continues...
The famous manufacturer moved the tank for aesthetics, but in doing so completely ruined the best part of those bikes, the low centre of gravity. Now they're top heavy, underpowered, and plagued with problems. Even with the "upgraded" engine, the Tiger's 800 triple has it for lunch.

That aside, my search for a Gen 3 beak in "silver ice" continues!
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Offline AvgBear

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Re: Fitting 'Beak' to 2018 800 XRt?
« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2019, 10:59:06 PM »
*Originally Posted by ubermick [+]
The famous manufacturer moved the tank for aesthetics, but in doing so completely ruined the best part of those bikes, the low centre of gravity. Now they're top heavy...
Probably true -- but:
A "Low Center of Gravity" is often lauded as beneficial when, more often, quite the opposite is true.
A tall bike (or one with a high COG) can be easier to balance when ridden than a low one (low COG) because the tall bike's lean rate (rate at which its angle of lean increases as it begins to fall over) will be slower. However, a rider can have the opposite impression of a bike when it's stationary -- a top-heavy bike can require more effort to keep upright, when stopped.
A small force at the end of a lever (the seat or handlebars near the top of the bike) more easily moves a large mass (COG) if that mass (COG) is closer to the fulcrum (tire contact patch) -- an advantage when stationary / arguably, a disadvantage when in motion (less stability).
Bikes with high COGs are notably more stable at-speed.
"Working on a motorcycle, working well, caring, is to become part of a process, to achieve an inner peace of mind.
The motorcycle is primarily a mental phenomenon."
Robert M. Pirsig

Online Paulhere

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Re: Fitting 'Beak' to 2018 800 XRt?
« Reply #25 on: June 18, 2019, 09:40:31 AM »
*Originally Posted by AvgBear [+]
Probably true -- but:
A "Low Center of Gravity" is often lauded as beneficial when, more often, quite the opposite is true.
A tall bike (or one with a high COG) can be easier to balance when ridden than a low one (low COG) because the tall bike's lean rate (rate at which its angle of lean increases as it begins to fall over) will be slower. However, a rider can have the opposite impression of a bike when it's stationary -- a top-heavy bike can require more effort to keep upright, when stopped.
A small force at the end of a lever (the seat or handlebars near the top of the bike) more easily moves a large mass (COG) if that mass (COG) is closer to the fulcrum (tire contact patch) -- an advantage when stationary / arguably, a disadvantage when in motion (less stability).
Bikes with high COGs are notably more stable at-speed.

Ha, in theory. But which one ends up on the floor more often?

The old Brit bikes were designed with all spindles in line eg wheel, crank, box, swing arm. To obtain the low C of G. Now we're seeing the same on the latest road Bonnies. eg Speed Twin 1200.

Those old Brit's handled just fine at speed, proven by lapping the TT course at 100mph with only 50bhp on tap & the skinniest of tyres. They never shut off for the bends. Ha
Current bikes Tiger800 XRx, Tiger Sport 1050, Ariel FH 650, Yam Serow 225.

Offline tcbandituk

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Re: Fitting 'Beak' to 2018 800 XRt?
« Reply #26 on: June 18, 2019, 03:05:48 PM »
*Originally Posted by AvgBear [+]
Bikes with high COGs are notably more stable at-speed.

so all those land speed guys are doing it wrong then....?
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Offline AvgBear

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Re: Fitting 'Beak' to 2018 800 XRt?
« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2019, 03:45:22 AM »
*Originally Posted by tcbandituk [+]
so all those land speed guys are doing it wrong then....?
Center of gravity, whilst certainly a consideration, is probably less important to them than frontal area and coefficient of drag (2 things a Tiger800 has plenty of...).
Re LSR vehicles, closeness to the ground tends to lessen airflow under the vehicle - lessening aerodynamic lift at speed.
All factors of a bike's geometry: wheelbase, fork angle, rake, trail, etc. -- as well as COG can affect stability (but, the "beak" probably has very little effect?).
"Working on a motorcycle, working well, caring, is to become part of a process, to achieve an inner peace of mind.
The motorcycle is primarily a mental phenomenon."
Robert M. Pirsig

Offline Q

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Re: Fitting 'Beak' to 2018 800 XRt?
« Reply #28 on: July 09, 2019, 05:51:26 PM »
*Originally Posted by Tiggerton [+]
What an absolutely useless piece of kit. Anybody agree with me ?

Yip - totalled the beak on my XCA during a heavy fall while dirt riding - filled the hole with the snub nose from the XRT as the beak serves no purpose whatsoever IMO and will probably get totalled again when we go adventure riding again (that's what the bike is for after all)   
When you talk, you only repeat what you already know - when you listen, you learn something new

 


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