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Offline Paulhere

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Re: Source of engine mount screws.
« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2019, 10:13:32 AM »
*Originally Posted by tauzero [+]
Haven't had any problem with galling. Have had plenty of problems with non-stainless fasteners rusting into place. Have you ever owned an old bike?

Ayup m8, old bikes, yes I've had Panthers & BSA's gone now, currently only old bike I have is an Ariel Huntmaster FH 650cc twin I paid 2 for back in '69, had it 50 years now. As you will be aware, the Meriden Triumph twins are really Ariels, designed by Ariel Engineers Page & Turner who Sangster (Ariel owner) moved in to tart up those old singles & design some modern bikes (for the time) after he bought out the collapsing Triumph company to turn it around as he did. Shame it was later sold on to greedy people who thought the company could survive on the laurels of a pre-war design & the Americans would continue to buy 85% of their production as they had in the 1950's. A bad strategy eh :164:

Edit:
Sorry OP, we've wandered a tad off topic here.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2019, 10:21:14 AM by Paulhere »
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Offline Dilbert

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Re: Source of engine mount screws.
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2019, 02:22:57 PM »
*Originally Posted by Rtwo [+]
I'm generally happy using SS fasteners in aluminium alloys as long as copper grease or Loctite etc. is used

Yes mate, thats one reason why I said to use Loctite Threadloc, the other reason was thats what Triumph recommend.

Back in the day 70s-80s one of the first jobs you did was to remove all the Philips head engine cover bolts and replace them with stainless steel socket head capscrews, I used Never-sieze on the threads because it stops galling and makes them easier to undo later and also because thats what we used at work on stainless fasteners into aluminium castings.

Unlubricated steel bolts can rust in blind aluminium holes and alu/ss combinations can suffer from galvanic corrosion as Paul says, but a grease, or thread sealant film is usually enough to prevent either, especially when the hole is sealed up tight so no electrolyte can get in.

Stainless steel galling can be a problem if the male and female threads are of a very similar grade, A2-70 doesnt suffer so much from this and is pretty much industry standard for nuts and bolts.

Brine is easily the worst electrolyte and highly corrosive, in countries where road salt is used in winter you really need to be on top of sealing bolt holes, lubricating bolts and using ACF, GT85, etc to protect the passive oxide layer on stainless and aluminium parts.
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Offline Dilbert

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Re: Source of engine mount screws.
« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2019, 02:38:22 PM »

Come on Paul, no need to go to Oz for info https://www.bssa.org.uk/topics.php?article=12   :008:
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Offline Dilbert

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Re: Source of engine mount screws.
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2019, 03:36:44 PM »
JMC
My bad they're M10x1.25x70lg and M10x1.25x80lg, now on order from Probolt  :028:
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Offline Paulhere

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Re: Source of engine mount screws.
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2019, 03:41:41 PM »
*Originally Posted by Dilbert [+]
Come on Paul, no need to go to Oz for info https://www.bssa.org.uk/topics.php?article=12   :008:

Ha, yeah, first thing that popped up.
Old Brit's had slotted head fasteners, I replaced mine with cap heads but umbrako HTS, not st/st. We get away with a lot of things we shouldn't do, but not always. Like you say coating the threads helps get away from the problems that's ok if the people who fit them are aware they should use it.

As you'll know, chlorine is the worst substance for attacking st/st, plenty of that about, even in the tap water we use to wash our bikes. We would have the factory water analysed at regular intervals for working with st/st to check the Chlorine levels.

Aircraft industry use only Titanium fasteners into aluminium, no use to us with our old bikes though, they were all UNF threads. Ok for Harley owners I'd guess.
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Offline Dilbert

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Re: Source of engine mount screws.
« Reply #25 on: July 22, 2019, 01:05:56 PM »
*Originally Posted by Paulhere [+]
Ha, yeah, first thing that popped up.
Old Brit's had slotted head fasteners, I replaced mine with cap heads but umbrako HTS, not st/st. We get away with a lot of things we shouldn't do, but not always. Like you say coating the threads helps get away from the problems that's ok if the people who fit them are aware they should use it.

As you'll know, chlorine is the worst substance for attacking st/st, plenty of that about, even in the tap water we use to wash our bikes. We would have the factory water analysed at regular intervals for working with st/st to check the Chlorine levels.

Aircraft industry use only Titanium fasteners into aluminium, no use to us with our old bikes though, they were all UNF threads. Ok for Harley owners I'd guess.

 :028:

In the late 80's I worked for a centrifugal pump manufacturer making seawater injection pumps for Shell North Sea Exploration, seawater eats through all grades of stainless in no time, even ASTM 321, they set up their own foundry and until recently were a major producer and developer of Duplex Stainless Steels.
We use either duplex, or less commonly Titanium alloys for pins and dowels to prevent galling, I think Aerospace use Titanium more, because of it's high strength and very low weight, duplex is about the same, or very slightly heavier than "normal" stainless steels.
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Offline JMc

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Re: Source of engine mount screws.
« Reply #26 on: July 22, 2019, 01:15:56 PM »
*Originally Posted by Dilbert [+]
JMC
My bad they're M10x1.25x70lg and M10x1.25x80lg, now on order from Probolt  :028:

I was just about to say, i had order two different lengths as the spacers are different sizes.

Jmc

Offline Paulhere

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Re: Source of engine mount screws.
« Reply #27 on: July 22, 2019, 05:27:27 PM »
*Originally Posted by Dilbert [+]
:028:

In the late 80's I worked for a centrifugal pump manufacturer making seawater injection pumps for Shell North Sea Exploration, seawater eats through all grades of stainless in no time, even ASTM 321, they set up their own foundry and until recently were a major producer and developer of Duplex Stainless Steels.
We use either duplex, or less commonly Titanium alloys for pins and dowels to prevent galling, I think Aerospace use Titanium more, because of it's high strength and very low weight, duplex is about the same, or very slightly heavier than "normal" stainless steels.

Yes, many different types of st/st, 316 is most common for general fabrication work. I worked at a company making industrial catering equipment back in the 90's, all the st/st used there was magnetic.
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Offline bucksfizz

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Re: Source of engine mount screws.
« Reply #28 on: July 22, 2019, 07:27:59 PM »
*Originally Posted by Dilbert [+]

Back in the day 70s-80s one of the first jobs you did was to remove all the Philips head engine cover bolts...

Pozidriv actually.
I know I'm being a pedant, but it's surprising how many people do not know the difference between Phillips (2 l's) and Pozidriv.
The two systems are completely different, and you must never use a Phillips screwdriver on Pozidriv and vice-versa.
Just to confuse matters further, the Japanese use JIS, which is similar to Phillips but not quite.
Lesson here.

Offline Paulhere

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Re: Source of engine mount screws.
« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2019, 07:36:05 PM »
*Originally Posted by bucksfizz [+]
Pozidriv actually.
I know I'm being a pedant, but it's surprising how many people do not know the difference between Phillips (2 l's) and Pozidriv.
The two systems are completely different, and you must never use a Phillips screwdriver on Pozidriv and vice-versa.
Just to confuse matters further, the Japanese use JIS, which is similar to Phillips but not quite.
Lesson here.

Hence why JIS screw heads get chewed up by folk trying to undo them with Pozi or Philips drivers.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2019, 08:27:23 PM by Paulhere »
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