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Online KildareMan

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Re: Norton buggered
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2020, 10:42:12 AM »
*Originally Posted by Paulhere [+]
Unless he's pulled a scam & set it up as a separate Ltd company.

There is lots of background noise at the minute regarding an individual and their actions.
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Online Paulhere

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Re: Norton buggered
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2020, 11:03:57 AM »
*Originally Posted by K1W1 [+]
The Chinese will buy the name and Norton will become another made in China clone selling 250cc bikes with Honda copy engines.

Zongshen are a huge company making over 1 million motorcycles per year, they'll be churning out these 650 Norton motors, but what name on the tank, maybe their own unless garner has done a deal with them before going bust.

https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/news-and-views/news/2019/april/zongshen-chinese-norton-650-twin
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Online healdem

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Re: Norton buggered
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2020, 11:26:18 AM »
Im not sure that the story of Norton is the manipulation of the workforce to enrich the owner.  I suspect Garner didn't have the funds to develop  as Trioumph did. Its always been a hands to mouth operation. I think they got sidetracked (read obsessed) with racing before they got sufficient bkes sold.
They took over a project (the 961 "Commando's") which was believed to be near complete but in reality were no where near prodcuion ready.
there business model was usustainable, making niche bikes sold direct with no local dealers.
Sad really
I think it was a great attempt  that was doomed to failure.
Its possible someone else may pick up the pieces, heck for all I know Triumph could be interested. but its going to need soemone with deep pockets and more importantly design expertese.
its a sad day for the employees.

Offline Djairouks

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Re: Norton buggered
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2020, 11:34:17 AM »
*Originally Posted by healdem [+]
Im not sure that the story of Norton is the manipulation of the workforce to enrich the owner.  I suspect Garner didn't have the funds to develop  as Trioumph did. Its always been a hands to mouth operation. I think they got sidetracked (read obsessed) with racing before they got sufficient bkes sold.
They took over a project (the 961 "Commando's") which was believed to be near complete but in reality were no where near prodcuion ready.
there business model was usustainable, making niche bikes sold direct with no local dealers.
Sad really
I think it was a great attempt  that was doomed to failure.
Its possible someone else may pick up the pieces, heck for all I know Triumph could be interested. but its going to need soemone with deep pockets and more importantly design expertese.
its a sad day for the employees.

Sounds a lot like the MV Agusta story and they also have almost no dealer networks, which makes it very complicated to sell your stuff with all the big brands everywhere !

Online KildareMan

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Re: Norton buggered
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2020, 01:04:28 PM »
Wasn't the Inland revenue pulling the plug but Metro Bank calling in the Administrators, so more than the 300,000 revenue were looking for. There's whispers of pension scheme being buggered as well - which I thought was prevented after the maxwell debacle years ago.
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Online healdem

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Re: Norton buggered
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2020, 01:18:19 PM »
So Id guess metro bank heard the rumours about the revenue and decided to be the lead creditor in any receivership or liquidation
If cash is tight often the revenue gets screwed, you ,ahem, forget to hand over the tax you have deducted from employee wages, likewise employer, and also employee contributions
doubtfull they would have played fast and loose with VAT

But thats rumour and speculation.

I just don't think the business model under Garner was bel;ievable. they were always behind the curve. great ambition, but not enough cash and resource to develop that ambition in a timely manner.
I suspect there is a niche for Norton, but I'd suspect that window is rapidly closing. Im amazed how Triumph under Bloor has been resurrected, but they started back in 1983 when the marque had only recently died. To re awakend a marque which has been effedctivley dead for decades is a much tougher proposition.

You have someone trying with AJS
Mahindra are seemingly trying to resurrect BSA

Revving old makes does carry some  'value', there is no doubt that the Triumph name kindled some love from me when buying the Tiger

but the market for such names is restricted., the further you are from the hay day of the make the smaller the pool of people who will respond to the re launch.

Yes seemingly its worked for Indian in the US, buts thats under the umbrella of Polaris, not a near one man band as was Garner at Norton

to often its a romantic notion in the minds of the rich to relive their youth when they had a real 'whatever'

Online Paulhere

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Re: Norton buggered
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2020, 01:32:32 PM »
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Offline steve@lincs

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Re: Norton buggered
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2020, 01:41:42 PM »
At a bit of a tangent, but most likely the Norton name will go to China.....I'm not well versed in Nortons, only having had an ES2 in 1972.   Apart from the Norton Jubilee, I can't recall anything smaller than 350 twins or singles from Norton. Surely they must have made tiddlers?  So a 125/250 Norton may well be round a rather long corner.

Online Paulhere

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Re: Norton buggered
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2020, 01:59:26 PM »
Garner shouldn't have been short of money:

"In 2017, Norton announced that it had sold rights to its forthcoming 650cc twin to Zongshen as part of a multi-million pound deal, and now the design drawing you see here has emerged on the internet in China, appearing to show a Zongshen bearing the same engine".
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Offline Fazer

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Re: Norton buggered
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2020, 08:19:01 PM »
*Originally Posted by KildareMan [+]
There is lots of background noise at the minute regarding an individual and their actions.

Quite an indictment of Garners activities on the Guardian website today, if its all true!
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jan/30/taken-for-a-ride-how-norton-motorcycles-collapsed-amid-acrimony-and-scandal

 


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