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Offline awjdthumper

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Re: Rear Chain Replacement
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2020, 10:15:10 PM »
Steve.P: I've just read your previous post and what slightly concerns me now is that for your bike there wasn't much adjustment left on the back axle after you put the new 124 link chain on. Seeing the same thing on my 800 XCa, I assumed it meant that the chain was reaching the end of its life but I'm not so sure now. I might have another go at measuring the length of 20 links as indicated in the manual to check again on the amount of wear?
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Offline Stevie.P

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Re: Rear Chain Replacement
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2020, 11:10:35 PM »
The XRt and XCa have the same swinging arm (gen 2 bikes), so yes the chain starts off we'll back on the adjusters.

:084: If it had been a split link chain I reckon a 122 link could easily be fitted and used,  however as a riveted chain I think it could be connected and rivetted but a real battle or impossible to get the wheel far enough forward to get the chain off the sprocket to allow wheel removal when/if required. :138:
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Offline awjdthumper

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Re: Rear Chain Replacement
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2020, 11:31:03 PM »
I've just had a closer look at the rear chain wear limits. For 20 links, a 525 chain is 317.6 mm long which compares with the stated wear limit of 319 mm. This therefore seems to allow a total stretch for these 20 links of 1.4 mm (0.07 mm per pin). When you translate this to the full chain, this means that at the wear limit the rear axle moves back only about 3.5 mm compared with when the chain was new.

So when I thought the rear axle adjuster was near its limit, this was not necessarily the case because it only has to accommodate 3.5 mm movement over the lifetime of a chain. As said, a 122 chain would move the axle forward 15.88 mm but this wouldn't really gain you anything.

What I now need to do is to precisely measure the length of 20 links as per manual to determine how much wear there's actually been. When I checked the first time, I didn't appreciate how small the margins were!!
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Offline Paulhere

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Re: Rear Chain Replacement
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2020, 09:08:00 AM »
Piddle all eh, half what it used to be.
Back in the days of our 650cc 35bhp twins with un-sealed chains, the limit given was 1/8" per foot. An awful lot at 6 thou per pin, given the size of the pins.

Measure with an engineers steel rule outside pin to outside pin is easiest, with a heavy weight on the bottom run.

Easy check on condition is, can you pull it off the rear sprocket?
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Online Rtwo

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Re: Rear Chain Replacement
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2020, 10:02:22 AM »
The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
....George Orwell

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Offline awjdthumper

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Re: Rear Chain Replacement
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2020, 10:28:16 AM »
*Originally Posted by Paulhere [+]
Piddle all eh, half what it used to be.
Back in the days of our 650cc 35bhp twins with un-sealed chains, the limit given was 1/8" per foot. An awful lot at 6 thou per pin, given the size of the pins.

Measure with an engineers steel rule outside pin to outside pin is easiest, with a heavy weight on the bottom run.

Easy check on condition is, can you pull it off the rear sprocket?
I have quite a large number of classic British bikes and therefore am still a bit Old School in terms of assessing rear chain wear!

I have a number of means of accurately measuring the 20-link chain stretch - I just didn't appreciate how accurate I needed to be last time. The rear sprocket is actually brand new and was changed by the dealer I bought the bike off so doesn't help in assessing chain wear. I suspect the old sprocket was simply changed for aesthetic reasons to match the condition of the rest of the bike.

Once I've accurately measured the chain stretch, I may have to consider whether it's worth changing the chain and sprockets at this point in time. Providing the front sprocket doesn't show significant wear, I may set my rear chain wear limit at, for example, 2.5 mm rather than the specified 1.7 mm assuming this is normally determined  by sprocket wear rate.
Suzuki GSX1400, Armstrong MT560 + collection of classic British bikes

Offline awjdthumper

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Re: Rear Chain Replacement
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2020, 01:37:24 PM »
When I checked the chain stretch originally and found it to be close to the 319 mm wear limit, I assumed it must have stretched quite a lot by then especially since the rear wheel adjusters seemed to be close to their limit. I hadn't realised the wear limit equated to a stretch of only 1.4 mm!

I've now measured the stretch very accurately at 318 mm by a number of methods which means my chain is only showing a minimal amount of stretch (0.4 mm) and is probably good for at least another 20k miles! A bit of a learning curve but it shows you need to be very careful and accurate in assessing rear chain wear :084:
 
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Offline stevedo

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Re: Rear Chain Replacement
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2020, 04:54:29 AM »
I recently replaced my chain with an endless DID VX 525 gold. I think it's easier (and provides an opportunity to grease suspension bearings) to remove the swinging arm than grind rivets, re-rivet etc. Just my opinion though :-)

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Steve
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Orange 800xc ABS travelling around the world. Currently in Chile. www.tiger800rtw.com or https://www.facebook.com/Tiger800RTW/

Offline awjdthumper

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Re: Rear Chain Replacement
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2020, 06:28:23 AM »
*Originally Posted by stevedo [+]
I recently replaced my chain with an endless DID VX 525 gold. I think it's easier (and provides an opportunity to grease suspension bearings) to remove the swinging arm than grind rivets, re-rivet etc. Just my opinion though :-)

Saludos
Steve
www.tiger800rtw.com
facebook @tiger800rtw
I took that approach on the BMW I replaced with my 800 XCa and in the process found one of the swinging arm needle bearings seized after <10k miles! I'm sure the Tiger is the same and is an easy bike to remove the swinging arm from.
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Offline Newhorizons

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Re: Rear Chain Replacement
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2020, 12:06:12 PM »
FWIW I just replaced the chain on my 2015 XC.

Bought the bike with 14000k on it and I have done another 12k , had also fitted an chain oiler plus I regularly clean and oil. I look after chains.

However what I was finding was that it had a very noticeable tight spot and adjustments were becoming regular, with a noticeable sag one half and within adj on the other.
Normally I would only adjust a couple of times a year or maybe after a trip, eg 2 or 3k.

So just fitted a DID VX (the fancy gold number) which I picked up online form a Yamaha dealer. Not sure what bike they hold them for but most hold stock.

So I agree with the other guys, the std chain is pretty average. I got like 60k out of a DID on my Bandit but only 15k on the standard chain.

Plus 1 on grinding off the top of the link, and whilst my chain breaker is only a cheapy I found that by carefully grinding down the leading edge of the pin I can actually fit that into the rivet of the new link and get the spread started. But that was because I have a small bolt in the open end of the breaker which allows me to lock the other end of the joiner at the back and use the breaker to actually press the outer link on. I generally then hit the link with a centre punch against an old piece of railway line that I have under the bench (haha) and that just gives it a bit more mushroom end and finished.

So be being able to do that with the one tool, with the aid of an angle grinder I could do a chain change on the road,   :001: (ps I have never had a chain problem but seen it many times so my breaker and a angle grinder works well.)



 


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