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Offline awjdthumper

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Re: Hopefully something that hasn't been asked about the 12k service
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2020, 05:55:45 PM »
I'm no expert on OHC engines but I was under the impression that both inlet and exhaust valve clearances tended to close up with time because the valve seats wear - I think the wear rate is greater for the exhaust valves. It would be interesting to know what other peoples experience has been with the Tiger 800?
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Offline tigerman1960

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Re: Hopefully something that hasn't been asked about the 12k service
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2020, 08:37:49 PM »
  :084: on all 4 of my tigers i have found that the inlet gaps open up and the exhaust close down, i have always thought this was because the inlet are a lot cooler than the exhaust, but i may be wrong, its just an assumption, due to expansion and contraction of metal somehow  :084:
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Offline freeware

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Re: Hopefully something that hasn't been asked about the 12k service
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2020, 08:44:47 PM »
All three that I needed to adjust were too tight and were exhaust.

Offline awjdthumper

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Re: Hopefully something that hasn't been asked about the 12k service
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2020, 10:17:40 PM »
I know a Haynes manual is probably not the best source of workshop knowledge but it recommends setting the clearances at the mid range. If you do that, I guess it doesn't really matter whether the inlet and exhaust clearances have increased or decreased - this approach to adjustment caters for either.

The only way you could adopt a different approach is if you understood exactly why a particular set of clearances change in the way they have (up or down). I'm happy with why the exhaust clearances close up but I'm at a loss to explain why the inlet clearances might increase with time??
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Offline Paulhere

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Re: Hopefully something that hasn't been asked about the 12k service
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2020, 10:45:54 AM »
*Originally Posted by pennpeel [+]
I may also grease the head bearing. As I'm not at 12k I'm thinking I have a bit of time to get it done.

That job took about 30 mins, (allow an hour) block bike up to let the front drop down 40mm or so, undo the top & let it drop down, chock in front of wheel. Use proper grease as spec. I use Mobil NLGI2. It really didn't need doing (at10k) the factory had stuffed a whole tub of grease in there. Suspension linkages were done at same time. You can buy the socket & castellated tool off ebay to do the steering head for cheaper than Triumph.

On all of my Triumphs eg 900, 955, 2 x 1050, the valve gaps have closed up, the inlets more so than the exhausts. On the 900 & 955 they were zilch when I came to diy, obviously never been done by dealer, but been charged for. I haven't done the 800 yet so can't comment on that. I set them all to near top limit on the basis might get away with just a check next time but I would do them if below mid.

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Offline tigerman1960

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Re: Hopefully something that hasn't been asked about the 12k service
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2020, 11:06:40 AM »
i changed the triumph OEM head bearings for taper roller on my 12,000 service,and i agree, buy the socket off e bay to do the bearings, its so much easier than trying with a c spanner, i find taper roller last for ever ( well maybe not for ever ) but a lot longer than the ball races that triumph fit.

when i got my 2014 roadie, it came with a receipt for 500 from a main dealer saying that the shims had been done, but i checked it at 13,000 because i recheck everything when i buy a second hand bike and they were all miles out, so obviously never been touched, fitted 4 shims, and then when it came to the 24,000 service, it didn't need any, but i swear by top quality oil,i think it makes a difference, but only my opinion.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2020, 11:12:32 AM by tigerman1960 »
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Offline AvgBear

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Re: Hopefully something that hasn't been asked about the 12k service
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2020, 04:40:59 PM »
*Originally Posted by awjdthumper [+]
It would be interesting to know what other peoples experience has been with the Tiger 800?
*Originally Posted by Paulhere [+]
On all of my Triumphs eg 900, 955, 2 x 1050, the valve gaps have closed up, the inlets more so than the exhausts.
*Originally Posted by tigerman1960 [+]
i checked it at 13,000 because i recheck everything when i buy a second hand bike and they were all miles out, so obviously never been touched, fitted 4 shims, and then when it came to the 24,000 service, it didn't need any, but i swear by top quality oil,i think it makes a difference, but only my opinion.
Nowadays, it's all pretty-much down to metallurgy. Before emissions regs it was all over the map with regards to wear metals in the cyl. head / combustion area. But getting rid of lead and focusing on proper lean combustion has changed all that.
Manufacturers have had to ensure proper hardening and compatibility of metals. Consequently: cam lobe, cam follower, and valve stem tip wear is, generally, a thing of the past (provided standard, recco'd, lube). The metallurgy that does, ultimately, need attention is at the valve face / valve seat nexus. Inlet valves (for performance themed engines) tend to be larger, thinner, and lighter than the same engine's exhaust valves. Inlet valves take a beating mainly due to (performance) manufacturer's reluctance to make them of a size, shape, and weight that might limit performance.
Exhaust valves, OTOH, live in an extremely harsh environment and manufacturers have succeeded, generally, in providing suitable mass, hardness, and durability for acceptable existence.
Whilst valve seat recession and 'pocketing' have been greatly reduced with attention to metallurgy -- wear / deterioration in the valve face / valve seat area has not been totally eliminated (thus, the need for adjust-ability).
Whilst top quality oil is always nice, valve clearance changes originate in the combustion chamber (where oil is absent).
« Last Edit: March 10, 2020, 04:48:47 PM by AvgBear »
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Offline Paulhere

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Re: Hopefully something that hasn't been asked about the 12k service
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2020, 05:03:03 PM »
*Originally Posted by AvgBear [+]
Nowadays, it's all pretty-much down to metallurgy. Before emissions regs it was all over the map with regards to wear metals in the cyl. head / combustion area. But getting rid of lead and focusing on proper lean combustion has changed all that.
Manufacturers have had to ensure proper hardening and compatibility of metals. Consequently: cam lobe, cam follower, and valve stem tip wear is, generally, a thing of the past (provided standard, recco'd, lube). The metallurgy that does, ultimately, need attention is at the valve face / valve seat nexus. Inlet valves (for performance themed engines) tend to be larger, thinner, and lighter than the same engine's exhaust valves. Inlet valves take a beating mainly due to (performance) manufacturer's reluctance to make them of a size, shape, and weight that might limit performance.
Exhaust valves, OTOH, live in an extremely harsh environment and manufacturers have succeeded, generally, in providing suitable mass, hardness, and durability for acceptable existence.
Whilst valve seat recession and 'pocketing' have been greatly reduced with attention to metallurgy -- wear / deterioration in the valve face / valve seat area has not been totally eliminated (thus, the need for adjust-ability).
Whilst top quality oil is always nice, valve clearance changes originate in the combustion chamber (where oil is absent).

 :187: But they still need adjusting.  :492:
Current bikes Tiger800 XRx, Tiger Sport 1050, Ariel FH 650, Yam Serow 225.

Offline freeware

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Re: Hopefully something that hasn't been asked about the 12k service
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2020, 06:49:58 PM »
*Originally Posted by tigerman1960 [+]
when i got my 2014 roadie, it came with a receipt for 500 from a main dealer saying that the shims had been done, but i checked it at 13,000 because i recheck everything when i buy a second hand bike and they were all miles out, so obviously never been touched, fitted 4 shims, and then when it came to the 24,000 service, it didn't need any, but i swear by top quality oil,i think it makes a difference, but only my opinion.

This was my reflection on the 'top job for top money' Triumph dealer provided to previous owner: they haven't adjusted anything so I had to do shims at 24k.

Offline freeware

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Re: Hopefully something that hasn't been asked about the 12k service
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2020, 06:53:28 PM »
*Originally Posted by Paulhere [+]
I use Mobil NLGI2. It really didn't need doing (at10k) the factory had stuffed a whole tub of grease in there.

Different experience here with 2012 Roadie - Done the bearing and was surprised how little grease there was.

 


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