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Offline Djairouks

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Re: Comparing Explorer 1200 vs Tiger 800 XRX or T vs Tiger 900 GT (Pro)
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2020, 09:30:23 AM »
It's funny how everyone talks about the 800 being top heavy and most people do not actually adjust the suspensions,
from all the talks I had on this forum. If you adjust rebound correctly, the heavyness goes away it's as simple as that,
believe me I had a  252kg Honda AT fully equiped, which was even worse before I adjusted the suspension.
Factory settings are not often good on many brand in my opinion, people need to learn suspensions, my guess is the
900 have rebound set better out of the box !

I apparently am of the minority, but the 900 didn't appeal to me, after riding a 800 and loving the comfort, the 900
is great in some aspects, but comfort and ergonimics were better on the 800 (vibes and seat, dislike electronic susp).
There's also Something to be said about higher insurance and the simple point that it guzzles 1l more per 100km, so
if like me you do 30'000km per year, that'smore vacation money with a 800.

A word on Yamaha as I have been riding and loving these for 10 years, there is in my opinion hardly another brand
which makes cheap, unbreakable and reliable bikes than Yamaha, you won't be paying much in servicing which, for
a pensioner might be Something worth thinking about. It's a shame the T700 drinks more fuel than the Tiger and has
such a small fuel tank, otherwhise I would have bought it in a heartbeat !
« Last Edit: May 15, 2020, 09:49:53 AM by Djairouks »

Online walker

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Re: Comparing Explorer 1200 vs Tiger 800 XRX or T vs Tiger 900 GT (Pro)
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2020, 04:51:15 PM »
*Originally Posted by ZShyster [+]
I have been lurking here for almost 2 years.  At the time I had, and still have a 2013 Trophy SE, and had a 2015 Explorer XC which has since been traded for a 2018 Bonneville T120.

I am almost 67 and love riding, however an aftermarket knee in one leg and problems with the other together with less than great fitness, make motorcycle weight a consideration, especially if the bike is top heavy.  A year ago I was riding a logging road in North Carolina and in a blind switchback caught a rut with soft dirt that resulted in a low side drop.  I rode out, after getting some help getting the Explorer up, three hours with a broken leg (fibula).  After the leg healed I decided, I needed to shed some weight off the motorcycles.  Therefore the Explorer was the first to go and the Bonnie is great for around town and in traffic, however, it is not all that great on the road.  Hence the reason for my post.

I am hoping that a Tiger 800 XRT or 900 GT Pro could satisfy my need for a touring bike.  The Trophy is great on the road but it is quite heavy, the Explorer was also good on the road without as much wind protection.  The Bonnie is not great over 65 mph compared to the Trophy and Explorer.  I was hoping I could get some input here.

Has anyone here ridden the Explorer or Trophy that can compare them to the Tiger 800 XRT or 900 GT Pro?  I have given up the dirt roads so I am just looking for something I can put on some asphalt miles with some comfort and stability and stay under 500 lbs. without bags.

Any opinions would be appreciated.

Ride Safe,
ZShyster

I've owned a 2015 trophy, still have a 2012 800xc (got it new) and a 2014 explorer. The explorer and the trophy are both really heavy - got rid of the trophy just before they stopped importing them and the market on used sales tanked (that was lucky).

The 800 motor is alright - the reviewers at the time raved about the strong mid range torque. Well, compared to a 600cc bike, sure. IF you are used to something bit with lots of torque low, the motor isn't great. Load it up with bags and crap, and it's worse. BUT - I have gone on long trips with mine, and I like it. I wish I had gotten the non XC one - the tubes are a PITA to deal with a flat, and the lower height would be more welcome on the street (I had a 1050 tiger at that time which served that purpose - should have kept that bike, oh well).

The 800xc (and I assume the newer 900 series) feel a lot more light on the road. You have to give it a good amount of throttle to get the same sort of acceleration than the explorer/trophy will do effortlessly (same for the 1050 and a lighter bike). One you are used to it, it's not bad. I still will stall out the 800... too used to 955/1050/1200 triples I guess.

I upgraded the suspension on the 800xc - yacugar in the rear and traxxion in the front - heavier springs were certainly needed, especially if you want to carry luggage with stuff in it. Start loading up those smaller bikes and they carry the weight a little different. Not bad, but the smaller bike will go from feeling nice and balanced to way past top heavy compared to a 1200 explorer with a load. For most of your riding, not an issue. Something with a lower center of gravity would hold luggage for longer trips better... but then something like a bonneville isn't as comfortable (I had a 2007 bonneville - you were limited with luggage, and if you loaded up some of the aftermarket pannier racks, you'd crack the rear subframe, but that's nothing a welder and some of your time can't fix... but they are limited for load... the new ones aren't a huge improvement there... just my opinion/experience).

The newer 900 might hit the sweet spot. I'd have to try one.  might be enough extra torque lower to make me happy. I love riding the 800xc - the lighter bike is certainly welcome compared to the 1200 lump... very different feeling when riding. Should have gotten the non XC version back then.  I'd like a newer one with electronic cruise and traction control, but I've done so much work on the suspension getting it right, and the ergonomics to be right a newer one would be a tough sell.

The 800xc has you on tip toes more than the 1200 explorer. The 800/900 with whatever is the street trim is possibly closer to the 1200 explorer.

Yes it's a lighter bike, but the power band is still annoying coming from a 955/1050/1200 and owning a 1200 still. It even cruises around on the highway 1200 rpm higher at the same speed... long stretches of higher speed make you feel like the bike is struggling where the explorer/trophy just cruised. Fuel economy on the 800 is the lowest of the three, and the tank is the smallest of the three. Bottom line - If you can live with the lower power and the power band being higher,  then it's not a bad choice.

Offline Georgeinabz

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Re: Comparing Explorer 1200 vs Tiger 800 XRX or T vs Tiger 900 GT (Pro)
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2020, 05:49:22 PM »
My 2 cents

Have a 2015 800 XR , previous was 1200GS , I do notice a big difference ( better) in wheeling about the garage or when you come to a standstill

Offline Djairouks

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Re: Comparing Explorer 1200 vs Tiger 800 XRX or T vs Tiger 900 GT (Pro)
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2020, 06:25:10 PM »
*Originally Posted by walker [+]
I've owned a 2015 trophy, still have a 2012 800xc (got it new) and a 2014 explorer. The explorer and the trophy are both really heavy - got rid of the trophy just before they stopped importing them and the market on used sales tanked (that was lucky).

The 800 motor is alright - the reviewers at the time raved about the strong mid range torque. Well, compared to a 600cc bike, sure. IF you are used to something bit with lots of torque low, the motor isn't great. Load it up with bags and crap, and it's worse. BUT - I have gone on long trips with mine, and I like it. I wish I had gotten the non XC one - the tubes are a PITA to deal with a flat, and the lower height would be more welcome on the street (I had a 1050 tiger at that time which served that purpose - should have kept that bike, oh well).

The 800xc (and I assume the newer 900 series) feel a lot more light on the road. You have to give it a good amount of throttle to get the same sort of acceleration than the explorer/trophy will do effortlessly (same for the 1050 and a lighter bike). One you are used to it, it's not bad. I still will stall out the 800... too used to 955/1050/1200 triples I guess.

I upgraded the suspension on the 800xc - yacugar in the rear and traxxion in the front - heavier springs were certainly needed, especially if you want to carry luggage with stuff in it. Start loading up those smaller bikes and they carry the weight a little different. Not bad, but the smaller bike will go from feeling nice and balanced to way past top heavy compared to a 1200 explorer with a load. For most of your riding, not an issue. Something with a lower center of gravity would hold luggage for longer trips better... but then something like a bonneville isn't as comfortable (I had a 2007 bonneville - you were limited with luggage, and if you loaded up some of the aftermarket pannier racks, you'd crack the rear subframe, but that's nothing a welder and some of your time can't fix... but they are limited for load... the new ones aren't a huge improvement there... just my opinion/experience).

The newer 900 might hit the sweet spot. I'd have to try one.  might be enough extra torque lower to make me happy. I love riding the 800xc - the lighter bike is certainly welcome compared to the 1200 lump... very different feeling when riding. Should have gotten the non XC version back then.  I'd like a newer one with electronic cruise and traction control, but I've done so much work on the suspension getting it right, and the ergonomics to be right a newer one would be a tough sell.

The 800xc has you on tip toes more than the 1200 explorer. The 800/900 with whatever is the street trim is possibly closer to the 1200 explorer.

Yes it's a lighter bike, but the power band is still annoying coming from a 955/1050/1200 and owning a 1200 still. It even cruises around on the highway 1200 rpm higher at the same speed... long stretches of higher speed make you feel like the bike is struggling where the explorer/trophy just cruised. Fuel economy on the 800 is the lowest of the three, and the tank is the smallest of the three. Bottom line - If you can live with the lower power and the power band being higher,  then it's not a bad choice.

There's kind of a lie many of us tell ourselves, the "I need more torque" on road that is, which is also amplified many times,
by the marketing and spec sheets.

My personal experience made me realize this, because I owned a Mt-09 triple, but for travel back then it was not good, so I
researched more sport touring bikes, then one day I was waiting for meeting next to a Honda shop and with my description,
the guy gave the Africa twin keys, I was really like WTF and skeptical, went for a ride and bought it coming back, I felt it was
very torquey and fun, but look up the torque.

MT-09 : 88Nm for 191kg so 0.46Nm/kg
Honda AT : 98Nm for 232kg so 0.42Nm/kg

With the tall 1st and different gearbox it seemed so much more powerfull, than the MT-09, but it's not the case, so my point is more of test the bikes, because look also at the models you talked about, the trophy and Tigers are not that much appart,
while it's not arguable the 1200 reigns king, it's nothing that crazy like a KTM 1290 adv at 0.58Nm/kg !
Anyway even with the measly 0.37Nm/kg, I risk to get fined far too fast every day  :164: so for roads in Europe, I think it's
still reasonable.
All this also doesn't Always translate to better/faster riding, I use an app to track my outings, so when I found nice roads I can
then visit them again, which permitted me to actually compare same road with Honda and Tiger, turns out at least for me the lower weight, lets me ride faster on the Tiger even with less torque in the numbers I just feel it flows better !

Trophy 1050 : 108Nm for 268kg so 0.40Nm/kg
Tiger 800 XRT (2018) : 79Nm for 213kg so 0.37Nm/kg
Tiger 900 GT pro : 87Nm for 209kg so 0.42Nm/kg
Tiger 1200 : 122Nm for 243kg so 0.5Nm/kg

Side note I did test the Tiger in 2014 and wasn't impressed, the throttle was uninspiring to me, but the 2018 ride by wire,
is pretty impressive and forks are also better from my memory, so for OP again go ride them !
« Last Edit: May 15, 2020, 06:30:26 PM by Djairouks »

Offline fac191

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Re: Comparing Explorer 1200 vs Tiger 800 XRX or T vs Tiger 900 GT (Pro)
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2020, 07:34:16 PM »
I dont think you can compare a twin with a triple. And because of the way they are mapped you dont get the proper engine anyway. I love the AT looks wise but it doesn't seem to be one thing or another. No cruise control and tubed tires are behind the times.

Offline Djairouks

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Re: Comparing Explorer 1200 vs Tiger 800 XRX or T vs Tiger 900 GT (Pro)
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2020, 07:47:05 PM »
*Originally Posted by fac191 [+]
I dont think you can compare a twin with a triple. And because of the way they are mapped you dont get the proper engine anyway. I love the AT looks wise but it doesn't seem to be one thing or another. No cruise control and tubed tires are behind the times.

Also fully kitted my AT was actually 252kg, so yeah pretty bad I was very affraid of having a puncture abroad, but that's
partially my point, the 900 feels more like a AT than a real triple, especially that the AT isn't the craziest twin either, which
to me blurs things that you think it's so powerfull, but I wasn't riding any better or faster on pavement !

Again testing is key, but I sure prefer a bike that revs above 7K rpm, love the triple !

Sorry this is going slightly OT  :181:

Online walker

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Re: Comparing Explorer 1200 vs Tiger 800 XRX or T vs Tiger 900 GT (Pro)
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2020, 11:21:22 PM »
*Originally Posted by Djairouks [+]
There's kind of a lie many of us tell ourselves, the "I need more torque" on road that is, which is also amplified many times,
by the marketing and spec sheets.

My personal experience made me realize this, because I owned a Mt-09 triple, but for travel back then it was not good, so I
researched more sport touring bikes, then one day I was waiting for meeting next to a Honda shop and with my description,
the guy gave the Africa twin keys, I was really like WTF and skeptical, went for a ride and bought it coming back, I felt it was
very torquey and fun, but look up the torque.

MT-09 : 88Nm for 191kg so 0.46Nm/kg
Honda AT : 98Nm for 232kg so 0.42Nm/kg

With the tall 1st and different gearbox it seemed so much more powerfull, than the MT-09, but it's not the case, so my point is more of test the bikes, because look also at the models you talked about, the trophy and Tigers are not that much appart,
while it's not arguable the 1200 reigns king, it's nothing that crazy like a KTM 1290 adv at 0.58Nm/kg !
Anyway even with the measly 0.37Nm/kg, I risk to get fined far too fast every day  :164: so for roads in Europe, I think it's
still reasonable.
All this also doesn't Always translate to better/faster riding, I use an app to track my outings, so when I found nice roads I can
then visit them again, which permitted me to actually compare same road with Honda and Tiger, turns out at least for me the lower weight, lets me ride faster on the Tiger even with less torque in the numbers I just feel it flows better !

Trophy 1050 : 108Nm for 268kg so 0.40Nm/kg
Tiger 800 XRT (2018) : 79Nm for 213kg so 0.37Nm/kg
Tiger 900 GT pro : 87Nm for 209kg so 0.42Nm/kg
Tiger 1200 : 122Nm for 243kg so 0.5Nm/kg

Side note I did test the Tiger in 2014 and wasn't impressed, the throttle was uninspiring to me, but the 2018 ride by wire,
is pretty impressive and forks are also better from my memory, so for OP again go ride them !

I have the bikes the OP has, I have one he is potentially looking at, so from many miles of comparison, it's something to think about. Do you *need* that much torque. Not necessarily. Power to weight ratios only tell some of the story. It's where the torque is applied in the power curve that really makes the driveability...  You can play with the numbers all day - best bet is to try one or more of whatever you are thinking about purchasing. From owning/riding/living with them, it's a definite difference, and depending on what the OP likes about his current rides, may not be impressed with the touring capability of the 800 or even 900 series. That's my experience going on longer trips with both.

The 800 would be adequate when loaded down. It's not the same sort of ride however. Touring longer distances I'd rather be on the bigger bike. much more tractable power down low where you would need it to start moving. Who knows - the OP might like the smaller bike.

The radial front calipers on the newer bikes is nice - one thing I wish the explorer had in the first generation.

Heck, the power delivery of the early 2000s bonnevilles was very driveable. Load it up it felt a little overwhelmed, but just did what I wanted it to do. Limited power output for electrics though ... that's another thing about the explorer/trophy - it has a LOT of power capacity for electrics... the 800 (depending on year) isn't quite as much output, but is still impressive.

Offline fac191

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Re: Comparing Explorer 1200 vs Tiger 800 XRX or T vs Tiger 900 GT (Pro)
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2020, 02:12:46 AM »
It all really comes down to one thing, are you really going to ride it off road. For most people gravelly roads, shitty roads, will be all you do. Loved my Tiger however it was crap for mpg the tank is too small its too buzzy on motorways and ultimately i never felt really comfortable. I rode back from Scotland to London on it and felt exhausted. The Super Tenere i have now i can do that ride and still feel good at the end of it. And get 55 mpg sitting at 80 on the motorway. While the engine is not overpowered its enough. I ride it on shitty roads all the time and it finds traction. The 900 Tiger engine has been redesigned to find better traction aswell but you will only really benefit from that if you ride those roads or off road. For me the real problem for the Tiger is the engine. I think because its tall it compromised the design. Thats why the tank is small. For it to be a serious tourer it needs a bigger tank for me. Its a shame Triumph haven't developed something around their 1200 twin engine. I know they do the scrambler but its rather limited.

Offline Djairouks

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Re: Comparing Explorer 1200 vs Tiger 800 XRX or T vs Tiger 900 GT (Pro)
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2020, 08:53:37 AM »
*Originally Posted by fac191 [+]
It all really comes down to one thing, are you really going to ride it off road. For most people gravelly roads, shitty roads, will be all you do. Loved my Tiger however it was crap for mpg the tank is too small its too buzzy on motorways and ultimately i never felt really comfortable. I rode back from Scotland to London on it and felt exhausted. The Super Tenere i have now i can do that ride and still feel good at the end of it. And get 55 mpg sitting at 80 on the motorway. While the engine is not overpowered its enough. I ride it on shitty roads all the time and it finds traction. The 900 Tiger engine has been redesigned to find better traction aswell but you will only really benefit from that if you ride those roads or off road. For me the real problem for the Tiger is the engine. I think because its tall it compromised the design. Thats why the tank is small. For it to be a serious tourer it needs a bigger tank for me. Its a shame Triumph haven't developed something around their 1200 twin engine. I know they do the scrambler but its rather limited.

Again it's all nice and dandy but if you're talking gen 1 or 2 of the tiger, the MPG was worse, with ride by wire I put the rain
mode, cruise control and I do a solid highway ride, especially with heating seat and grips for comfort, I asked my garage to
remove the O2 sensor with new exhaust, seems it also improves things a bit.

There's not many adv tourers with much more than 19l tanks, only GS, Multi 1260 adv and again they are 260ish machines,
so it's kind of a pick your poison thing, I was almost unable to park in a spanish trip on a slight upward street hotel, almost
dropped the AT that with all luggage was around 280Kg... I'm only 37 but really such heavy bikes is not good to me, when
I go on 5-6K Km tours for weeks.

I agree with you about the off-road, hell Steve Kamrad did crazy stuff on a roadie 800, I rode 1200GS adv and they were heavy as sh*t and even more boring, but I hardly do more than hard pack dirt or gravel.


I Don't want to tell people not to comment, but maybe precise which gen, 1, 2, 3 you have, because otherwhise the OP will
be mislead as the 2018 models have solid improvements and again even per Triumph specs, the 900 drink 1l/100km more.
So either you get slightly more torque and pay more money to buy and fuel, or you get less torque and pay less overall, but
you always could change gearing to -1F/+3R on a 800 and retain an acceptable mileage still not guzzling 1l/100km more.

I'm a big advocate of finding a lighter bike that has most goodies, then just alter it to be better, it won't cost you the price
of the bigger models and it's fun to do the work, if you do the -1F/+3R, you'd get 13% more torque, remove O2 for better
lower punch and then better exhaust and I don't think I'd need a 900 tbh, you'd just miss the IMU won't argue that !
« Last Edit: May 16, 2020, 09:09:41 AM by Djairouks »

Offline Derchef1962

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Re: Comparing Explorer 1200 vs Tiger 800 XRX or T vs Tiger 900 GT (Pro)
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2020, 12:41:06 PM »
I hesitated for while to post something as I have no experience with the bikes the op wants information about. So this post is a bit off topic but several replies here took a more general direction so I feel inclined to say something.

Finding the right bike is extremely personal. What is best for one rider can be a nightmare for others. One of my pals is riding the KTM 1290 Superduke aka "the beast". While he is loving that bike to me it's exactly that : a beast.

In this thread several people said the Tiger 800 is top heavy and they are probably right when they describe the feeling they have riding it. To me the bike is well balanced weight wise and I have no issues. Currently I am doing more kms on my Bonneville Bobber than on the Tiger and the Bobber's center of gravity is surely much lower. Do I feel uncomfortable switching from the Bobber to the Tiger? Not for one second instead it's a bit like putting my old house slippers on I am having for years now bit frayed at the edges with the odd stain here and there but extremely comfortable and a well known feeling.

So while it's necessary to collect as much information as possible when you are in the process of getting a new bike you have to evaluate the comments of other riders whether their riding style, their use of the bike etc. is similar to yours.
Life is too short to drink bad wine or to ride bad bikes.

 


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