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Online KildareMan

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Re: Germany and Austria trying to impose limitations on motorcycle usage
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2020, 02:53:37 PM »
95 dB is bloody loud
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Offline Tallpaul

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Re: Germany and Austria trying to impose limitations on motorcycle usage
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2020, 04:14:51 PM »
I have no problem with this. If bikers were to stop messing with the exhausts on bikes, we might have a fair platform to appeal a fairer road tax system based on emissions like cars.

Online KildareMan

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Re: Germany and Austria trying to impose limitations on motorcycle usage
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2020, 06:23:16 PM »
*Originally Posted by Tallpaul [+]
I have no problem with this. If bikers were to stop messing with the exhausts on bikes, we might have a fair platform to appeal a fairer road tax system based on emissions like cars.

I've no problem of people needing with their exhausts. It's making them stupidly loud that gets my goat. The Scorpion can I have is no louder than stock at about 85dB but has a deeper resonance.
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Offline Derchef1962

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Re: Germany and Austria trying to impose limitations on motorcycle usage
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2020, 07:32:11 PM »
Well

As Stevie P. expects my comments here they are:

1. Austria, or to be more exact the Austrian State of Tyrol has indeed imposed a ban for motorcycles with an "idle noise" (sorry guys no idea how to translate "Standgerusch" it's the noise the bike makes in neutral and in standstill as far as I understand that correctly) with 95 dB or above on certain roads. My 2013 Tiger 800 is listed in the papers with 92 dB, my 2017 Bobber does 97 dB. Judge for yourself. Main criticism at the moment for that rule is: who gives a sh*t about idle noise, that does not really tell you how loud the bike is in motion. But apparently that is the only noise figure in the bike's registration papers, so any half-wit rozzer can check that without expensive technical equipment. Just to get this right: the guys from Tyrol are banning bikes which are perfectly legal. We are not talking about the hooligans with illegal cans, no dB eater etc.. We will see a legal battle about this as there is a violation of EU law. Little side note: the Tyrolian police uses Ducati Multistrada bikes, those are way above that limit. So it's the rozzer in the car giving a ticket to his rozzer pal on a bike telling him to get off the road?
2. Germany : now this is very strange. Apparently the Bundesrat which is more or less the assembly of the 16 states of Germany has issued a notice to the Bundestag (that's the parliament) to introduce a law banning new bikes to be registered which make a noise above "80 dB". Funnily enough as far as I have understood it they do not specify in what operation mode of the bike that noise is to be measured. If it were the idle noise as detailed above that would make any combustion engine illegal. If it were the bike's noise in motion it would be ridiculous as EU law has already set a limit to 77 dB. So right now we do not really know what they're up to. Wrapped in all this is a claim to give the states more power to impose Sunday bans for motorcycles. My opinion : don't think they have the power to ban combustion engines all together. So it's probably down to redefine how to measure a bike's noise in motion. I am lawyer and no engineer but I have learned that current methods allow manufacturers with flap exhausts, mappings etc. to pass the tests but in reality the bike is simply too loud. On top of that: I guess one of the bigger problems of recycling in this world is what to do with all the exhausts a Harley Davidson comes with from the factory. I have the feeling really no one keeps the OEM exhaust and they all turn to something louder.

The main problem here is that the state, the government, the authorities fail to check properly the bikes on the road in action regarding the noise they make: too expensive, too many equipment needed etc.. So some "very clever" politicians get the idea: hey let's just safe the money for controls on the road, let's just simply suffocate the biker community by making it illegal for 80 % of their activities.

Let's hope that plan will not work out. It's not just the bike manufacturers, the dealers, the mechanics and the supply shops making good money with us bikers, it's hotels, restaurants and other businesses as well. In Germany everybody is talking about "staying in the country" for the hols this year because of the Covid-19 crisis. Hey I am doing this for years with at least with 10 overnight stays a year in this very country on tour with the bike.

Sorry rather long post but most of it simply needed to get out.
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Offline Rtwo

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Re: Germany and Austria trying to impose limitations on motorcycle usage
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2020, 07:35:04 PM »
I have no idea how loud mine is on my KTM, it's quite loud though.
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Online 1284rider

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Re: Germany and Austria trying to impose limitations on motorcycle usage
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2020, 07:52:47 PM »
*Originally Posted by Derchef1962 [+]
...the Austrian State of Tyrol has indeed imposed a ban for motorcycles with an "idle noise" (sorry guys no idea how to translate "Standgerusch" it's the noise the bike makes in neutral and in standstill as far as I understand that correctly) with 95 dB or above on certain roads. My 2013 Tiger 800 is listed in the papers with 92 dB, my 2017 Bobber does 97 dB. Judge for yourself.

I understood that noise levels were measured as a drive-by test at something like 40% revs and a neutral throttle, not at idle?  I believe that the decibel scale is logarithmic and doubles in sound pressure (noise) for every 3dB increase.  So 95dB would sound twice as loud as 92dB?  Anyhoo, as was said earlier, 95dB is bloody loud so a bike that has an idle noise level of 95dB would be ridiculously loud when being ridden and should rightly be taken off the road.  There's just no need for it.

Offline Derchef1962

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Re: Germany and Austria trying to impose limitations on motorcycle usage
« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2020, 09:08:57 PM »
*Originally Posted by 1284rider [+]
I understood that noise levels were measured as a drive-by test at something like 40% revs and a neutral throttle, not at idle?  I believe that the decibel scale is logarithmic and doubles in sound pressure (noise) for every 3dB increase.  So 95dB would sound twice as loud as 92dB?  Anyhoo, as was said earlier, 95dB is bloody loud so a bike that has an idle noise level of 95dB would be ridiculously loud when being ridden and should rightly be taken off the road.  There's just no need for it.

Apparently from what I have heard it's different. Under the current rules a bike seems to be not the loud in drive by test than in standstill. Again I am a lawyer not an engineer and science was not my best class in school.
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Offline Fazer

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Re: Germany and Austria trying to impose limitations on motorcycle usage
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2020, 08:18:51 AM »
Surely any measure of the sound being emitted by a bike has to specify a distance from which it is measured as well as the sound level because the level reduces as the distance increases.

Offline mcinlb

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Re: Germany and Austria trying to impose limitations on motorcycle usage
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2020, 08:59:56 AM »
Surely this is something that the "States / Countries / EU should take up with the manufacturers instead of moving the goalposts on an already existing standard and possibly prosecuting people who have bought a bike with a standard "E" approved exhaust.

Offline Djairouks

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Re: Germany and Austria trying to impose limitations on motorcycle usage
« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2020, 09:56:54 AM »
Yes as it been said, sound levels in dB double power every 3dB, so looking at my label 91dB at 4750rpm, that's far from 95dB and honestly a state can't pass a law that would outlaw, most motorcycles not only HDs, so I would not worry so much.

It's not as bad as here in Switzerland, seems the sound "cameras" to fine loud vehicles are ready to be installed everywhere... But I wouldn't be surprised they'd fine perfectly legal bikes.

 


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