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Offline Djairouks

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Re: Germany and Austria trying to impose limitations on motorcycle usage
« Reply #50 on: June 26, 2020, 07:16:22 AM »
*Originally Posted by K1W1 [+]
ABS is compulsory on new motorcycles and cars in many parts of the world. These rules always only apply to vehicles registered from a specific date anything older than that date is covered by the previous regulations. Here is Australia if you have a car older than the early 1960s you don't for example need seat belts because when the car was new they weren't required.

The point about the Human Rights Commission was somebodies comment that the rules in Austria were discriminatory against motorcyclists which would fall within that organisations remit.

Driving any vehicle is not considered a human right, human rights are, dignity, justice,
security, free choice, being treated with decency and things like that.

I understand what you mean, I actually agree but I think this is more a consumer rights
issue and since European law exists for countries in EU, I would think that's where it falls.
https://ec.europa.eu/info/policies/consumers/consumer-protection/our-partners-consumer-issues/european-and-international-consumer-organisations_en

Offline penry

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Re: Germany and Austria trying to impose limitations on motorcycle usage
« Reply #51 on: June 26, 2020, 07:46:02 AM »
*Originally Posted by K1W1 [+]
I would be all in favour of a blanket 95db noise limit on all motorcycles but it would have to be enforced on all motorcycles with HD riders no longer being exempt from noise regulations as they appear to be universally at the moment.
The loud pipes save lives argument is b/s and frankly, stupid if that is the best reason people can come up with for excessive noise.

100% in agreement and extend that proposal to include ALL road going vehicles Quads, Cars, Trucks, Motorhomes - the LOT.
If the selfish drivers who don't give a damn about anyone but themselves ( a bit like spoiled or very young children ) Riot there are already laws and punishments to deal with that eventuality.

Might be cheaper for them to take the offending noisy appendage off their transport and reaffix the road legal, government approved manufacturers original item.

Bring it on.
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Offline penry

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Re: Germany and Austria trying to impose limitations on motorcycle usage
« Reply #52 on: June 26, 2020, 08:06:17 AM »
*Originally Posted by Djairouks [+]
Smoking is bad on your health, yet no country would ban that, would not be possible, I really don't know what's happening to Austria !

Now they have banned smoking in buildings, vehicles ( buses, company owned etc ) and the workplace I am almost entirely unaffected by this anti social activity.  Difficult to see how this approach would work with noisy exhausts?
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Online Rtwo

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Re: Germany and Austria trying to impose limitations on motorcycle usage
« Reply #53 on: June 26, 2020, 12:26:07 PM »
*Originally Posted by Djairouks [+]


Smoking is bad on your health, yet no country would ban that, would not be possible, I really don't know what's happening to Austria !

Bhutan  :017:

The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
....George Orwell

Check the Facts !!

Offline Derchef1962

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Re: Germany and Austria trying to impose limitations on motorcycle usage
« Reply #54 on: June 27, 2020, 08:11:30 AM »
*Originally Posted by Djairouks [+]
Driving any vehicle is not considered a human right, human rights are, dignity, justice,
security, free choice, being treated with decency and things like that.

I understand what you mean, I actually agree but I think this is more a consumer rights
issue and since European law exists for countries in EU, I would think that's where it falls.
https://ec.europa.eu/info/policies/consumers/consumer-protection/our-partners-consumer-issues/european-and-international-consumer-organisations_en

You left out equal treatment that is a very important human right and what the Americans describe as the pursuit of happiness in their constitution.

Just banning motorcycles and let other vehicles go on the road even if they are louder than the bikes is clearly violating the biker's right to be equally treated by the state or the government. So that's one thing. At least under our constitution here in Germany any restriction the state imposes on its citizens must follow the principle of proportionality. I have serious doubts that the measures the Tyroleans introduced can be held up in the light of that principle. So if the state needs to do something against noise on the roads I'd say he is obliged to do more road controls and crash down on modified bikes with illegal cans, airboxes and the like. Only if and when such control performed with reasonable effort is ineffective the state may impose such a ban.


 It is simply illegal when the state is not fulfilling its duties in order to protect its citizens just to go the easy way of banning legal vehicles. That is unproportional and top of that violating the principle of equal treatment.
Life is too short to drink bad wine or to ride bad bikes.

Offline Djairouks

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Re: Germany and Austria trying to impose limitations on motorcycle usage
« Reply #55 on: June 27, 2020, 08:28:23 AM »
*Originally Posted by Derchef1962 [+]
You left out equal treatment that is a very important human right and what the Americans describe as the pursuit of happiness in their constitution.

Just banning motorcycles and let other vehicles go on the road even if they are louder than the bikes is clearly violating the biker's right to be equally treated by the state or the government. So that's one thing. At least under our constitution here in Germany any restriction the state imposes on its citizens must follow the principle of proportionality. I have serious doubts that the measures the Tyroleans introduced can be held up in the light of that principle. So if the state needs to do something against noise on the roads I'd say he is obliged to do more road controls and crash down on modified bikes with illegal cans, airboxes and the like. Only if and when such control performed with reasonable effort is ineffective the state may impose such a ban.


 It is simply illegal when the state is not fulfilling its duties in order to protect its citizens just to go the easy way of banning legal vehicles. That is unproportional and top of that violating the principle of equal treatment.

Sure I get the point, though I do not think this is in every country constitution, then I think a bit like in Switzerland, lands have some leeway to implement regulations, so it's complicated, even if like you I find this cannot be legal !

I would still think human rights relate more,  to human interactions, like if you would be discriminated, on the basis of gender, colour, sexual preferences etc, against being discriminated by the vehicle you bought, which is what they do in Tyrol.
But I'm no legislator or lawyer, especially that every country has it's ways that differ, so in the end I don't know.

Here in Switzerland there's one canton where, if you get caught with a loud exhaust, they go as far as to confiscate it, and destroy the exhaust... While in others nothing much happens except a fine.
But apparently it is legal, because confederation has let every canton make their legislations and do not get involved, as our political system works.

Offline kokkios

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Re: Germany and Austria trying to impose limitations on motorcycle usage
« Reply #56 on: July 01, 2020, 07:01:47 PM »
Looks like a healthy turn up to the demo last Sunday.
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Hope it gives results or else as they say "when they shave your neighbor go get shaving cream"   

Offline Djairouks

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Re: Germany and Austria trying to impose limitations on motorcycle usage
« Reply #57 on: August 02, 2020, 07:45:23 AM »
Sorry it's in French, but basically same idiots are waking up in Switzerland, they want to ban motorcycles making above 95Db, what really annoys me, it's that it is specifically aimed at motorcycles.
Yet all the macho assholes with their stage 2 straight exhaust and compressors, making noise in my street, are left alone and never bothered...

https://www.lematin.ch/story/la-reforme-en-vue-des-normes-anti-bruit-fache-des-motards-569527504453

 


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