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Offline Newhorizons

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For AF tuning, what ranges do people believe/prefer ?
« on: July 19, 2020, 10:04:15 AM »
Having been playing around with my Commander Autotune for a few months now and I have reached a philosophical decision point.

When Tiger tuners are setting up their AF Tables, what are your starting (say low revs) and finishing values (say high revs)

Having now seen a few maps that may have been read direct from ECU's or downloaded by whatever means it intrigues me that lots of those values are well up in the 14.x's. AF

So I am going to outline my theory (below), outline maps I have seen ( explained below) and ask that you guys to share your basis/theory.

My theory.
When set up on the dyno by a professional tuner the initial values started at 13.3 AF, gear one.
Eg his target was 13.3 for that gear, all throttle opening and revs.
Around 5th gear he leaned out to around 13.8/.9. for all values and in sixth gear he stopped at 14.0.

Having previously dynoed my Bandit, I was able to establish that my jetting was lean at some points because the vacuum was to high and needle jet was way too high.
Long story short a jet kit gave it more fuel down low BUT stronger springs regulated the cutaway and regulated the fuel volume. (Yeah I had the mains sorted)
So the reason I could see all this was I had a NGK wide band AF meter in the collector. Wonderful bit of gear and the jet kit went most of the way to getting good AF values.
In this situation the idle was around 13.15 13.2 which pulled away strong, cruise was circa 13.5, throttle opening with vacuum effect dropped into the mid to high 12's (perfect when it wanted fuel) and the golden rule was 'dont' highway cruise over 14.0. Done. Awesome set up and love it every time I throw the leg over.

Maps I have seen.
When I see other maps, some have started well above 14... like as high as 14.5, then when higher up in the revs and throttle openings they drop back into mid to low 13's.
This is typically on a one map table not per gear.

So what do people think their standard map is??
If they can read it what sort of values do you have & please post, and
If loading another map, what sort of values do you think you are getting?? 

Philosophically .... do you start with low values at low speeds (eg 13.2 0r 13.3 etc like I have always though was in the Bible).
OR, do you go straight to 14.x at low speeds and getting of the line then richen it at the other end of the table to say 13.5 to ensure you are not running lean?

I know an EFI Tiger is capable of taking leaner mixtures, whereas the Bandit air cooled needs a conservative approach.
A race car or drag car whatever probably runs lower again but I have heard that you need to lean out to create 'power' but there is a mgic line in whatever applications that loses gains and hurts fuel consumption.

Thats the magic spot I would like to establish for a 2015 Xc (with a aftermarket muffler, pre sock and oiled filter for those who really need all the facts....80 hp at the rear wheel)

FWIW I am just starting to build a 13.5 gear one map which increments up to 14.2 in 6th gear. All values are the same irrespective of throttle / revs but given in 6th gear I am in all sorts of trouble by the time I get to 6 or 7 grand I doubt that this value is going to do any damage unless doing a track day... then I need a plan B.

Ideally the outcome I am looking for is a safe range for a balance power and fuel consumption for all weathers.

Then it is possible with the Commander to switch between 2 maps   :152:, maybe I could have a touring map and a fun map, or a Summer map and a Winter map.

What I am not sure about is what values I should be aspiring too ... common you Tuning gurus, strut your stuff.    :046:
ps, the comment about engine timing recently is really interesting, knowing +5 degree of advance on my Bandit was a really neat trick to waken it up.

Offline Newhorizons

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Re: For AF tuning, what ranges do people believe/prefer ?
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2020, 03:46:31 PM »
Common guys, this shouldn't be so hard. If you want me to share some good ideas you need to share too.

Here is a link another Tiger die hard sent me last year when he was tuning maybe a picture will excite a few ?

Hope it works.

https://ibb.co/D7zYR2T


Offline Newhorizons

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Re: For AF tuning, what ranges do people believe/prefer ?
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2020, 03:50:26 PM »
Look here is a nice color one from Tune Ecu.

Everyone talks about this product so there must be plenty of map examples out there, common share.

https://ibb.co/CJ5LwKP

Offline D6864

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Re: For AF tuning, what ranges do people believe/prefer ?
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2020, 10:58:15 AM »
Sorry, no idea on AFRs but I have kept my 2012 XC updated from new with the latest standard map using Tune ECU. What I've noticed is that the off-on throttle transition and low throttle riding gets smoother with each update but fuel consumption gets worse so I guess it must be running richer now. If you can keep the latest smoothness but improve the cruising fuel consumption, that would be  :062:

Have you seen the relevant thread on Advrider?

Offline Newhorizons

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Re: For AF tuning, what ranges do people believe/prefer ?
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2020, 01:51:40 PM »
Hey D6864.

You need to find a way of reading your map.

That is why I started this thread.

If you dont know the map is and you dont know what your target / ideal range then you are flying blind.

Depending on what you have done to the bike I believe that changes the AF requirements, irrespective of what the ECU is actually doing.

So you could be rich where you don't want it and lean when you do..... you wont be able to prove it unless you fit a Wide Angle NGK like I did and read the AF or put it on a dyno.

The Autotune allows you to set the target AF and then during rides it will suggest the Fuel + and - .
Then when I read the table I actually balance out the values so that I dont get silly reductions in fuel with silly increases in the next sector. Eg rich at say 2500rpm 1/4 throttle but suddenly very lean at 2750 rpm at 3/8 throttle. You need to know this.

Like someone said the other week tune for acceleration which means balancing highs a lows within the right range.

The Target maps is what I am looking for.

Whilst the seat of the pants is a confirmation of rideability

 


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