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Offline Newhorizons

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Re: More power for the 2018 tiger 800XCA
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2021, 02:53:47 AM »
+1 on the fuel map.

I bought a second hand bike XC15 with a Commander System. Initially I went to a Tuner to get a base map and understand how the Autotune module works.

Since then I have created 2 main maps, the first in the 13.3 AF (1st gear) to 14.0 AF range. Incrementing gear by gear so 14.0 is sixth gear.

However my current map is 13.5 to 14.2 AF in sixth and it is AWESOME. Tuners would suggest staying below or close to 14.0 in all gears, however going too lean +14.x or fat < 13.0 or 12.X dont give you notable power or economy advantages.

So I would put to you that its not about power, its about 'acceleration'.

Best acceleration gets you through the range smoothly and I see it as more important than POWER and it gets you there with less effort .

As the guys have said, sometimes you can compromise part of the power band but loose on another. The muffler is often part of the other.

If you can flash the ECU with AF's similar to above it will come alive in 'all gears'. My best mod was to fit an Akrapovic onto the already fitted aftermarket mid pipe (Scorpion) but it opened up my exhaust and allowed full flow right to the top of the range. So I am tuned now to that open flow. I might lose just a little of the bottom but given my fueling is spot on you would never notice it.

Went for a 400k ride last week and noticed that I was changing down less, that above 60 or 70 klm per hour I just opened up in 6th and if I need to get away quickly its screams through to 8/9 000 revs quicker than the speed limits allow. Its smooth and lively. Wish I had wider ratios in the gearbox.

The last thing that I have been able to achieve (specific to Commander) is that after a long ride and using all the gears and all the revs I can go back in and look at what the Auto tune suggests are the adjustments to the Map. So it suggests the % change + or - to what the 'ECU' says and at that point I can also balance out cells that seem to have values that are high one way or the other. eg, +10 next to - 8 cell at X Revs & Y throttle opening. I would typically take them both back to zero so that whatever is happening its not dramatic ups and downs.

In Final what I have asked for on this site and yet to see, is what a standard ECU actually sets out to achieve with the AF.. would be interesting to know what they use to meet Regs, because so many people load newer maps but no one actually posts what the values are.

Clean consistent AF's equal 'ACCELERATION' otherwise it could be labouring through poor values and make best power in the sweet range... depending on where that is and where you do most of your riding. If you are in a poor AF range from say 3500 to say 5 or 6 then you are missing the fun bit. IMO.

Offline Newhorizons

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Re: More power for the 2018 tiger 800XCA
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2021, 02:57:00 AM »
Ps, actually came away from last weeks ride thinking if its all 'working properly' then 80/85 horses at the rear wheel is really all that most people need/use on a bike like this and 'more power and torque' is well and truly into the next range and that adds weight, cost and complexity.

Offline Linc

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Re: More power for the 2018 tiger 800XCA
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2021, 01:11:16 AM »
*Originally Posted by Newhorizons [+]
Ps, actually came away from last weeks ride thinking if its all 'working properly' then 80/85 horses at the rear wheel is really all that most people need/use on a bike like this and 'more power and torque' is well and truly into the next range and that adds weight, cost and complexity.

I agree with you that the bike really does not need more HP I think it has a rather mild torque curve not enough punch or grunt. I understand the 3 cyl motor is not a low end torque monster I would just like a little more wheelie grunt I guess.. :001:

Online Djairouks

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Re: More power for the 2018 tiger 800XCA
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2021, 07:19:15 AM »
There might also be another solution, so that the engine feels more responsive, on my other ride
a Yami Fazer 8, I've swapped the throttle tube that was around 100-110 of rotation from 0 to WOT,
for a race one with 60 rotation and boy does it make the bike livelier, because your hand can only
go so fast, the angle reduction is as if your hand was faster !

Of course the later 800 have electronic throttles, you can't do it like this, but apparently each riding
mode has a throttle response curve, so I'm waiting for warmer days to ask my dealer, if they could
just increase the sport mode throttle curve, which to me would be really beneficial, so only this mode
get's more "juice".

I'm not so keen on goign myself through tune ECU  :155: i'd prefer someone qualified doing it.

Offline AvgBear

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Re: More power for the 2018 tiger 800XCA
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2021, 03:57:36 AM »
*Originally Posted by Linc [+]
...I would like a little more power for my 800. Any ideas?? Thoughts on programmers?
*Originally Posted by Linc [+]
No mapping for the 2018 XCA   I had a friend with the 1200 he went for a service and the tech found an update that really woke up his bike.. But no such luck for the 2018 800...
*Originally Posted by Linc [+]
I agree with you that the bike really does not need more HP I think it has a rather mild torque curve not enough punch or grunt
In the automotive world a popular item is: Throttle Response Controller. An aftermarket electronic device that interfaces between the throttle (signal sender) and the throttle body (signal receiver). They're made specifically for many models -- specifically b/c of wiring connectors, are adjustable for amount of "gain", and really do enhance throttle response (if needed?).
Maybe not Tiger800 specifically? -- but, there are some for motorcycle type vehicles. Adaptation may not be too difficult?
There are a terrible lot of lies going about the world, and the worst of it is that half of them are true.
WSC

Online Djairouks

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Re: More power for the 2018 tiger 800XCA
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2021, 03:36:31 PM »
Lovely and warm day had a nice ride out, came by the dealer and asked them about the throttle,
they told me they can't alter it's mapping, shame, I guess i'd need to temper with TuneECU  :110:.

On the other hand they told me in their experience, they did alter the exhaust tubes and decat
few tigers, paired with a lambda sensor shunt, according to them it gives more reactiveness to the
throttle and the benefit of a cooler motorcycle as well.

Then it's a question of do you feel okay about the polution or not  :164:

Online Derchef1962

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Re: More power for the 2018 tiger 800XCA
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2021, 05:05:42 PM »
*Originally Posted by Linc [+]
Very true Chico.White is the fastest color.

and there is no doubt about it...
Life is too short to drink bad wine or to ride bad bikes.

Online Derchef1962

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Re: More power for the 2018 tiger 800XCA
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2021, 05:13:04 PM »
*Originally Posted by Andrew Sharp [+]
Part of the reason for 95 bhp limit is due to the regulations around down rating to an A2 licence, which is part of the reason why the new 900 makes the same power. I have not seen anything about increasing the 800 power just by tweaking the ECU.

Nope, they do not do it any more but there was a special Streety that was around 95 hp so it could be cut to the 48 hp to match the A2 licence. If Triumph had wanted to get more power out the 800's or 900's they could have easily done so and have a "special edition" to match A2. Currently there is a Streety S which comes with 48 hp from the factory and I am sure you can power this up to the 118 hp the Streety R has at least.

I had expected the 900 to have something between 105 and 115 to compete the KTM 790/890 but apparently they did not want to go that road, it was sufficient to match the BMW 850 GS I think.

Besides at least for me the 95 hp is plenty. I love the higher torque on the 900's though
Life is too short to drink bad wine or to ride bad bikes.

Offline AvgBear

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Re: More power for the 2018 tiger 800XCA
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2021, 06:13:52 PM »
*Originally Posted by Djairouks [+]
Then it's a question of do you feel okay about the polution or not  :164:
Interestingly, it's probably pollution control regs that conspire to slow throttle response -- from the factory?
In order to comply, vehicles must pass emissions tests at certain levels of operation. Often manufacturers use gearing (often taller) and throttle lag to accomplish.
Enter the aftermarket throttle controller which intercedes between the throttle and throttle body butterfly/s to modify/amplify/enhance the signal (voltage/frequency/etc.).
There are a terrible lot of lies going about the world, and the worst of it is that half of them are true.
WSC

Online Djairouks

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Re: More power for the 2018 tiger 800XCA
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2021, 12:56:59 PM »
*Originally Posted by AvgBear [+]
Interestingly, it's probably pollution control regs that conspire to slow throttle response -- from the factory?
In order to comply, vehicles must pass emissions tests at certain levels of operation. Often manufacturers use gearing (often taller) and throttle lag to accomplish.
Enter the aftermarket throttle controller which intercedes between the throttle and throttle body butterfly/s to modify/amplify/enhance the signal (voltage/frequency/etc.).

I've googled those controllers, can't seem to find anything honestly !?

For sure, I would bet they design engines without restrictions, then they do prototypes and apply the
current legislations and alter mappings so that it passes polutions regulations, without compromising
the engine response too much. Unless you're VW with diesel cars  :164:

I can feel a big difference from Euro4 on the Tiger, next to my cable throttle Yami in Euro3, where
response is very quick, I do think RBW also helps kind of hide the engine restrictions, compared to
good old cable throttles.

 


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