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Offline TIGERKW

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Re: No fuel pump sound, no starting tiger 800 xrx
« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2021, 05:02:14 PM »
*Originally Posted by T800XC [+]
How about the immobiliser light. Does it go out when you turn the ignition on? If not, the RFID chip in the key isn't being read by the immobiliser, but that should throw up  DTC.

It does turn off.

Offline TIGERKW

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Re: No fuel pump sound, no starting tiger 800 xrx
« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2021, 05:11:47 PM »
So I went on troubleshooting with the multimeter and found something strange.

I have one probe connected to the + wire from the battery, and the other prope to the white red wire that's coming out of the starter relay and going to the starter solenoid.
When ignition is off there is no connectivity, when I turn the key it shows 35 ohms. I tried the start button, still 35 ohms.

When I hook up the battery the red white wire shows 12 volts, but the purple one (other side of the relay) doesn't..



Online chuckxc

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Re: No fuel pump sound, no starting tiger 800 xrx
« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2021, 10:20:04 PM »
Ok, when the bike ignition is on, that purple wire(pin 3 of starter relay 51) must be at 12V supply voltage. It gets its 12V from the circuit:  battery/30A main fuse/brown wire/fuse 5 of block 52/blue-red wire/purple wire.
Check that circuit!

Be careful, there are two different red-white wires on relay 51, pins 1&5. Pin 1 is the 0V action from the starter button, pin 5 should be 12V from purple when the start button is pushed. Careful with yellow-brown pin 2 of relay 51, that is a relay enabling voltage directly from the ECU.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2021, 10:28:27 PM by chuckxc »
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Offline awjdthumper

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Re: No fuel pump sound, no starting tiger 800 xrx
« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2021, 08:50:36 AM »
*Originally Posted by TIGERKW [+]
So I went on troubleshooting with the multimeter and found something strange.

I have one probe connected to the + wire from the battery, and the other prope to the white red wire that's coming out of the starter relay and going to the starter solenoid.
When ignition is off there is no connectivity, when I turn the key it shows 35 ohms. I tried the start button, still 35 ohms.

When I hook up the battery the red white wire shows 12 volts, but the purple one (other side of the relay) doesn't..
I think this set of tests is a bit meaningless because it includes the ECM in the circuit being probed. In general, you need to be very careful including electronic circuits in resistance or continuity measurements because, worst case, you could damage the electronics.

Apologies for arriving a bit later to this thread but could you please clarify what the actual problem now is? Is it that the fuel pump does not switch on and the starter circuit does not operate?

The fuel pump is activated via a relay by the ECM and Pin 2 on the fuel pump relay should go to 12V when activated.

The starter circuit is also activated by the ECM and Pin 2 of the starter relay should go to 12V when activated.

If neither relay is activated then the problem must be an input problem at the ECM (I doubt if the ECM has been damaged) - in other words, it is not getting the correct input signal or notification; for example, the clutch switch is not shorting ECM Pin B45 to ground (not likely to be the problem here).

It might also help is you clarify how you originally connected to the fuse box - how was the connection made? Similarly, how did you make the connection to the headlight? Similar problems to this have been caused in the past by a connector being disturbed and then corroded contacts then producing poor connections.
Suzuki GSX1400, Armstrong MT560 + collection of classic British bikes

Offline TIGERKW

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Re: No fuel pump sound, no starting tiger 800 xrx
« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2021, 01:08:26 PM »
First of all, I really appreciate your help and effort! Electrical problems are not my favourite and I was nearly throwing the tiger of a bridge  :173:

*Originally Posted by chuckxc [+]
Ok, when the bike ignition is on, that purple wire(pin 3 of starter relay 51) must be at 12V supply voltage. It gets its 12V from the circuit:  battery/30A main fuse/brown wire/fuse 5 of block 52/blue-red wire/purple wire.
Check that circuit!

Checked that, there is 12V on the purple wire.

*Originally Posted by awjdthumper [+]
I think this set of tests is a bit meaningless because it includes the ECM in the circuit being probed. In general, you need to be very careful including electronic circuits in resistance or continuity measurements because, worst case, you could damage the electronics.

Apologies for arriving a bit later to this thread but could you please clarify what the actual problem now is? Is it that the fuel pump does not switch on and the starter circuit does not operate?

The problem is that when I turn the key I can't start te bike. The dashboard lights up as usual, but I don't hear that whirring sound of the fuel pump.

*Originally Posted by awjdthumper [+]
The fuel pump is activated via a relay by the ECM and Pin 2 on the fuel pump relay should go to 12V when activated.

The starter circuit is also activated by the ECM and Pin 2 of the starter relay should go to 12V when activated.

If neither relay is activated then the problem must be an input problem at the ECM (I doubt if the ECM has been damaged) - in other words, it is not getting the correct input signal or notification; for example, the clutch switch is not shorting ECM Pin B45 to ground (not likely to be the problem here).

It might also help is you clarify how you originally connected to the fuse box - how was the connection made? Similarly, how did you make the connection to the headlight? Similar problems to this have been caused in the past by a connector being disturbed and then corroded contacts then producing poor connections.

So I tried connecting the tomtom by removing fuse nr3 for the ignition, inserting the wires and pressing the fuse back in. That didn't work, so unplugged the wires again. Next I unplugged the lefthand headlight, inserted the wires in the connector for the running light and pushed the headlight connector back. This way the tomtom only charged when the lights are on when the engine is running. So I had to start the engine a couple of times to check if it was connected correctly. The engine started without any problem and the tomtom was charging.

So two days later I was packing for a weekendtrip, stuffed the area underneath the passenger seat, got my riding gear and turned the ignition, dash illuminated, but no fuel pump whirring, and no cranking.

Another idea I have is that by pushing on the passenger seat to close it I damaged some wiring, maybe the tip over sensor wiring. I checked it and it seems to work fine. But I can't test how much V is going to the ECU from that sensor.

About the relays;
 Starter relay nr 51:
  Pin 3 12 V
  Pin 1 0V with or without starter button and clutch
  Pin 2 0V with or without starter button and clutch
  Pin 5 0V with or without starter button and clutch

 Fuel pump relay nr 27:
  Pin 3 12V
  Pin 1 12V
  Pin 2 12V
  Pin 5 0V

 EMS relay nr 24:
  Pin 3 12V
  Pin 1 12V
  Pin 2 Ground
  Pin 5 12V

Also with an OBD2 link and TuneECU I discovered some errors: P0335 (crankshaft sensor circuit error), P0460 (fuel level sensor circuit error), P1552 (cooling fan open circuit and short to negative) and P1685 (EMS main mainrelay circuit error). I've cleared the errors, but that didn't solve the problem
 

« Last Edit: August 01, 2021, 01:14:39 PM by TIGERKW »

Offline awjdthumper

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Re: No fuel pump sound, no starting tiger 800 xrx
« Reply #25 on: August 01, 2021, 02:07:23 PM »
I'm in the middle of putting a swinging arm back on a CBR900RR so will need to look at the answers in a bit more detail later.

As face value, it looks as though the ECM is not activating either the fuel pump or the starter circuit and so the problem looks to lie on the input side of the ECM. It will therefore probably come down to working out which input is not getting to the ECM.

As far as I understand it, you didn't disturb any connector in trying to wire up the Tom Tom but whatever you did almost certainly was the cause of the problems.
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Online chuckxc

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Re: No fuel pump sound, no starting tiger 800 xrx
« Reply #26 on: August 01, 2021, 02:15:48 PM »
If your bike started and ran after you connected the Tom Tom to the headlight connector then it would seem that your DIY connections didn't cause the problem, because it ran ok afterward with the GPS. But your suspicions about interfering with something when you stuffed your gear under the passenger seat could be the cause. The fact that you have 0V on pin 2 of the starter relay 5, and equal voltage on pins 1&2 of pump relay 27 means the ECU is not enabled to allow the bike to start.
Your hunch about the tip-over sensor is good thinking, that's one of many reasons why the ECU is not allowing the bike to run. Clutch switch, side stand switch, kill switch etc  are other reasons.
A simple and likely cause might be that you dislodged the jumper wires on the alarm connector (45 on the schematic) under the seat. That would certainly disable the ECU run function.
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Offline TIGERKW

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Re: No fuel pump sound, no starting tiger 800 xrx
« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2021, 03:07:07 PM »
Those jumper cables on the alarmconnector seem to be okay, the tip over sensor has the right resistance, I find it hard to measure the amount of V on the pink grey wire ( that should be around 0,65V) do you have tips for that?

Offline characticus

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Re: No fuel pump sound, no starting tiger 800 xrx
« Reply #28 on: August 01, 2021, 04:23:09 PM »
Since you have access to TuneEcu does that not allow you to see the sensor data as read from the ECU? The TuneEcu website seems to imply it does -"In the Sensors Screen, all sensors in the bike can be checked for their values. It can be selected via a submenu, the sensors whose values you want."

Also the screenshot from the Windows version shows data from clutch switch, start relay, fuel pump, etc

Maybe check with that?

Offline TIGERKW

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Re: No fuel pump sound, no starting tiger 800 xrx
« Reply #29 on: August 01, 2021, 05:26:00 PM »
I get a Fault code P1632 "Fall detection switch high voltage". According to this thread: https://www.triumphrat.net/threads/fall-detection-or-tip-over-switch-on-efi-models.159232/ I should be able to start the engine when I unplug the fall detection sensor. But when I do I only get an extra fault code saying the cruise control is shut off because of an error in the system.

 


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