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Offline awjdthumper

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Re: New ECU Advice
« Reply #190 on: November 23, 2021, 06:30:51 AM »
If the problem turns out to be a duff ignition key, I am not sure what the process would be to get a new set of keys. For example, is it actually possible to get a Triumph dealer to pair the ECU with a new set of ignition keys with different chip codes. Or is it possible just to provide the VIN (from the replacement ECU) and for Triumph to then be able to produce two new keys programmed for the chip code stored in the ECU which they can look up? I will be driving past my local Triumph dealer at about 9 am this morning and so will pop in and ask them the question since I am curious to know the answer :084:





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Offline awjdthumper

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Re: New ECU Advice
« Reply #191 on: November 23, 2021, 09:27:20 AM »
Popped into my local main Triumph dealer this morning to ask about replacement keys and came away non the wiser :157:

The issue appears to be whether the key code can be read from the ECU and then used to program a new set of keys. Obviously, the key code was supplied to most owners attached to their spare key but my Triumph dealer did not know the answer as to whether their diagnostics software could extract it from the ECU. The question probably needs to be asked of a more experienced Triumph main dealer.

If the dealer can't extract the code, I am sure there are people out there who can do this with a clever bit of Can-Bus programming.
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Offline D6864

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Re: New ECU Advice
« Reply #192 on: November 23, 2021, 03:16:57 PM »
Right, I have MegaChops' ECU, ignition switch and key and have done some testing on my bike. There's good news and bad news; my bike doesn't run with MegaChops' ECU either but I can reproduce the same behaviour with my ECU and, after reading and interpreting the service manual, I think I understand why.

  • Test 1 - MegaChops ECU and key - yellow MIL on, no response to start button, same as MegaChops bike
  • Test 2 - MegaChops ECU and my key - yellow MIL flashing, no start
  • Test 3 - My ECU and MegaChops key - same result as Test 1 but we know my ECU is OK  :001:

The service manual is pretty vague and contradictory on the immobiliser system but as I now understand it, the key has to be paired with the immobiliser/TPMS module and the immobiliser/TPMS has to be paired with the ECU. If the key doesn't match with the immobiliser/TPMS then the immobiliser/TPMS to ECU check doesn't take place. I think this is what's happening:
  • in Test 1, the bike is immobilised because my immobiliser/TPMS isn't paired with MegaChops' key, the immobiliser/TPMS to ECU check doesn't take place so the MIL doesn't flash
  • in Test 2, my key is paired with my immobiliser/TPMS but the bike is still immobilised because MegaChops' ECU isn't paired with my immobiliser/TPMS, the ECU flashes the MIL and  raises DTC P1508
  • in Test 3, the bike is immobilised because my immobiliser/TPMS isn't paired with MegaChops' key and my ECU does the same as his

Therefore, there are two options to fix it:
  • put the original ignition switch back on, get the bike to the dealers and get them to pair the new ECU with the immobiliser/TPMS module
  • get the immobiliser/TPMS module from the donor bike and use the new ignition switch and key

Can anyone suggest any further tests while I have MegaChops' ECU? I do have TuneECU and TigerTool available.

Offline awjdthumper

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Re: New ECU Advice
« Reply #193 on: November 23, 2021, 04:27:16 PM »
My understanding is that the immobiliser is there simply to read the code from the key and passes this to the ECU via the Can-Bus. It is in the ECU that the code check is done and if this is not passed then the bike will not start. The immobiliser does not have the key code stored in it and so cannot carry out a separate check.

In Test 1, it would be interesting to know what the DTC logged is since the MIL is illuminated. I don't think this happened on MegaChops bike if I remember correctly.

In Test 2, the MIL is flashing because the key code does not match that stored in the ECU. DTC P1508 is probably logged.

In Test 3, since the MIL is not flashing, it would seem to imply that the ECU is not detecting a mismatched key possibly because MegaChops key is not working. Again, it would be interesting to know what DTC has been logged.

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Offline awjdthumper

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Re: New ECU Advice
« Reply #194 on: November 23, 2021, 05:24:27 PM »
Just looked at my Tiger and forgot that the MIL is illuminated before you start the engine and therefor probably no DTC's are being generated in Test 1 & 3. The conclusion would seem to be from D6864's tests is that MegaChops key is duff and that is why his bike will not start.
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Offline D6864

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Re: New ECU Advice
« Reply #195 on: November 23, 2021, 05:48:32 PM »
I should have said that the MIL is always on until the engine runs!

I'm sure the bike is reading MegaChops' key ok because it's presence changes the behaviour as expected, will confirm the mismatch DTC L0008 in the immobiliser with TigerTool.

Offline awjdthumper

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Re: New ECU Advice
« Reply #196 on: November 23, 2021, 05:56:19 PM »
If MegaChops key is working, Test 3 should result in a code mismatch and a flashing MIL. It doesn't which suggests the immobiliser is not reading MegaChops key code.
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Offline T800XC

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Re: New ECU Advice
« Reply #197 on: November 23, 2021, 06:32:27 PM »
I agree with awjdthumper's interpretation of how the key data is stored in the ECU rather than the immobiliser.

Although there are comments in the service manual about the need to pair the ECU and immobiliser, I'm not entirely sure thus is necessary. If it was, then a DTC would be generated if there was a mismatch. More likely, I think, is that the ECU needs to be paired with an immobiliser 'type' rather than a specific device serial number.

As mentioned yesterday, I can provide the details on how to monitor the CAN-bus for the key handshake data and the pass / fail message.
  
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Offline awjdthumper

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Re: New ECU Advice
« Reply #198 on: November 23, 2021, 07:45:48 PM »
It would be good to confirm or refute the duff key hypothesis via the Can-Bus messages and it would be useful if you could outline what would be involved in terms of the hardware/software required.
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Offline chuckxc

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Re: New ECU Advice
« Reply #199 on: November 23, 2021, 09:16:46 PM »
More good analysis guys. Yes, it would seem this test would single out the MegaChops key as the fault since test 1 and 3 give the same result.
I have heard that a qualified locksmith has the electronics to interrogate and read the code within an electronic key like these. But I don't know for sure.

If so, if he had MegaChops key along with another known good Triumph key, he could determine if it is responding. Might be worth a phone call to a locksmith?
« Last Edit: November 23, 2021, 09:18:22 PM by chuckxc »
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