Author [NL] [FR] [ES] [DE] [SE] [IT] Fuel Tank Breather Pipes (pre-late 2016 'ish)  (Read 562 times)

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  • Online Stevie.P   gb

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    Online Stevie.P

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    Fuel Tank Breather Pipes (pre-late 2016 'ish)
    on: Jan 22, 2022, 04.09 pm
    Jan 22, 2022, 04.09 pm
    I've put this here in the usual thought it might prove helpful to someone  :027: following a recent discussion ( https://www.tiger800.co.uk/index.php/topic,30416.0.html ) about fuel tank breather pipes that brought up some differences, particularly in regard to the 'EVAP' system.

    It would appear that the 'Gen 1' Tiger was probably free of the EVAP system, apart from certain overseas markets requiring it, i.e California.
    This setup then carried over to the 2015 'Gen 2' Tiger .... until, it appears, late 2016 'ish when it appears the 'EVAP' system was then simply fitted to all the bikes coming off production regardless of intended market (and obviously pushing the bike price up).
    I wonder, just my thought, if this was the same time that Triumph also started fitting those fugly orange reflectors to the front forks, another overseas item not required here in the UK. :084:

    So, I'm currently plodding through a 24k service and an issue I had was the water not draining away from around the fuel filler hole and subsequently a few times I've opened up the fuel cap to refuel and been unable to stop a noticeable amount of water going straight into the tank. Fortunately this hasn't caused any running issue and on advice here when it has happened I have added some methylated spirit when I've got home.

    The first thing I need to highlight is that the following is regarding my bike, a 2015 non-EVAP system fitted bike, though a lot will still be relevant to the EVAP system fitted bikes I'm sure. It would appear the easiest thing is to look under the bike on the LHS just forward of the swing arm, behind the side stand/rider foot peg and see if you have the EVAP cannister fitted there. :027:

    So starting with the tank, as we know there are 2 pipes to remove from underneath the tank, usually referred to as the small and large one (diameters). Looking at the tank as if sat on the bike the LH pipe is the smaller diameter and the RH pipe the larger diameter.

    The LH pipe is the rain water drain, seen inside with the fuel cap open at about the 10 o'clock position (the prominent side when the bike is on the side stand obviously) ....



    ... and exiting below.



    The RH pipe is the fuel tank vent, also seen with the fuel cap open and is that orange rubber seal at about the 5 o'clock position ...



    ... and exiting below.



    The fuel cap itself is non-vented in itself and has 5 holes in it.



    1 is the vent via the tank ...
    2 is the plate hole position that sits on top of seal 1 when the cap is closed
    3 is a small hole that I initially thought would be the vent into the tank
    4 are 2 more holes
    and 5 are 2 more holes under the latch section

    When I used a piece of hose and blew into position 2 I was able to both blow and suck, indicating no form of internal valve and the air appeared to vent mainly from the 5 area, the latch holes.

    So the 2 pipes from in front of the airbox ...



    ... pass down and across squeezed in between gearbox and ABS module ...



    ... towards a clip on the LH side with the addition of a wiring branch ...



    ... near the front LH swing arm pivot ...




    ... and exiting below the bottom run of chain.



    I tried passing the strimmer line down both these pipes but both stopped at the same point where I suspect the pipes were crimped due to the tightness of their path and possibly this was the previous cause of my water drainage issue cleared by my moving and probing of their route. :027:
    So the ends of the 2 drain hose are wet in the picture because I pushed a syringe of kerosene down each one to confirm that they were clear. I had also blown down each one previously with no problem. That, and as best as possible, no visual signs of any form of valve in the pipes makes me believe these are purely open vents. However I may be wrong, expecting a valve in the fuel vent line for fall over protection, so I will try to get better access and confirmation when I eventually get around to removing the swing arm for bearing greasing. 

    While having the tank off (after 24k miles of uncovered outdoor parking) I have done a bit of maintenance. I removed the fuel cap and cleaned in and around it and for information only 3 of those 6 screws, plus 1 additional inner screw (adjacent to the orange seal) actually holds the assembly to the tank.



    There are also 2 very small vent holes in the cap top that allow rain water to drain away from the lock and these being very small are obviously prone to blocking. I cleared both of mine with a small pick pushing it through the hole and rotating it a few times to clear it. Certainly not something I was aware off until actually attempting to do a very thorough service (hopefully in readiness for the Frankfurt Megameet?).



    It obviously also made sense to check the underside of the tank which was relatively tidy after 6.5yrs outdoors ...



    ... having just a few areas of rust mainly on weld beads and the 2 vent pipe stubs.









    These bits I have treated with Hammerite rust treatment yesterday afternoon in the sun, but unfortunately today is far to cold to apply the (red) Hammerite Smooth paint, so you get this write up instead.  :008:
    As soon as it is warm enough I will probably use the treated bits as test patches and if all well then totally paint the underside with the Hammerite. The Hammerite is labelled as 'High' in the volatile fumes rating so I opted not to bring the tank indoors to warm up and paint it inside.

    Also you can see that inevitably the inside of the vent pipes through the tank rust on the inside due to lack of any prevention so I plan on putting a syringe of ACF50 down each one before refitting and if that looks to have been enough volume to have coated the inside of the pipes I will add it as an occasional task, maybe annually. :028:
    Also owned my 1979 Bonnie T140E from new!
    We don't stop playing because we grow old .. WE GROW OLD BECAUSE WE STOP PLAYING!!!


  • Offline Thripster   gb

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    Offline Thripster

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    Re: Fuel Tank Breather Pipes (pre-late 2016 'ish)
    Reply #1 on: Jan 22, 2022, 04.48 pm
    Jan 22, 2022, 04.48 pm
    Very informative thank you Stevie and a great reference for future work.

  • Online Stevie.P   gb

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    Online Stevie.P

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    Re: Fuel Tank Breather Pipes (pre-late 2016 'ish)
    Reply #2 on: Jan 26, 2022, 04.42 pm
    Jan 26, 2022, 04.42 pm
    *Originally Posted by Stevie.P [+]
    It obviously also made sense to check the underside of the tank which was relatively tidy after 6.5yrs outdoors ...
    ... having just a few areas of rust mainly on weld beads and the 2 vent pipe stubs.
    These bits I have treated with Hammerite rust treatment yesterday afternoon in the sun, but unfortunately today is far to cold to apply the (red) Hammerite Smooth paint, so you get this write up instead.  :008:
    As soon as it is warm enough I will probably use the treated bits as test patches and if all well then totally paint the underside with the Hammerite. The Hammerite is labelled as 'High' in the volatile fumes rating so I opted not to bring the tank indoors to warm up and paint it inside.

    Well no improvement in the temperature ... but my wife went off for 5 days visiting friends this morning so into the house with the tank to warm up and one coat of red Hammerite Smooth later ... should keep any further rust at bay for a few extra years hopefully. :002:



    Hopefully get it back on the bike tomorrow if the weather allows. :028:
    Also owned my 1979 Bonnie T140E from new!
    We don't stop playing because we grow old .. WE GROW OLD BECAUSE WE STOP PLAYING!!!


  • Online Stevie.P   gb

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    Online Stevie.P

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    Re: Fuel Tank Breather Pipes (pre-late 2016 'ish)
    Reply #3 on: Jan 27, 2022, 04.17 pm
    Jan 27, 2022, 04.17 pm
    So when I removed the tank I syphoned out just over 10 litres of fuel into my 5L petrol and 5L diesel cans with a small amount into my 2L Fuel Friend bike can. Yesterday, being near ready to refit the fuel tank I was curious about how much water was in the fuel, both from the ingress from the filler hole and inherent water in the fuel from ethanol. So I decanted 5L into an empty dry screen wash container and propped it to give a low corner.



    24hrs later I was able to clearly see the water, though harder to photograph. I would estimate in terms of measurement it was about a little less than a teaspoonful. I have now similarly decanted the other 5L to probably see the same result/amount tomorrow.


    If you look up Youtube clips on removing ethanol from fuel, for classic vehicle owners like my 79 Bonnie, they simply add a measured water/food colouring mix, i.e 500ml to a fixed fuel amount, i.e 5L, shake, allow to settle and the colouring makes it easier to see the water in the bottom and the resulting quantity of water, minus the initial 500ml normally does equal 10% (for E10) of the fuel quantity. They then usually add some octane booster to replace the fuel power loss, though if you do this with premium grade you effectivelly result in having ethanol free standard grade. Maybe something I will have to consider after I rebuild the Bonnie though there may now be an ethanol proof overhaul kit for my SU carb. :027:
    Also owned my 1979 Bonnie T140E from new!
    We don't stop playing because we grow old .. WE GROW OLD BECAUSE WE STOP PLAYING!!!


     


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