Advice needed for 800 XC clutch problem

[Poacher67]

HOPING FOR SOME ADVICE ON A CLUTCH PROBLEM ON MY 2013 TIGER 800 XC ABS..
I bought the bike from a dealer about 3 years ago, they did a pre-delivery service using 10w/40 semi-synthetic engine oil and a Triumph oil filter. All was well and the bike had only the 'standard' Triumph clutch rumble which disappeared when the lever was pulled in. This continued for around 2000 miles when I decided to do the first oil/filter change using fully synthetic Castrol Power1 4t Racing and a Triumph filter. After this the clutch noise changed and has steadily increased until it is now pretty loud, sounding more like a crunching, clattering noise which lessens but doesn't go away when the lever is pulled in.. I'd assume that either the clutch basket centre bearing was gone, the plates were worn out/burnt and/or the clutch springs were tired BUT.. When I go for a longer run (20+ miles) the noise lessens dramatically and it DOES go away with lever pulled in..

I'm going to replace the friction plates and probably the springs too but I don't want to do this and the problem reoccur a short way down the line so I'd be grateful for any opinions (especially from anyone who has had a similar experience)as to what the noise might be and what is causing it so I can fix it and make sure it doesn't happen again !! - I was thinking maybe the clutch isn't getting enough oil on my short commutes and this has caused the friction plates to burn out ? (thinner oil? thicker oil ?..) Could this be why the noise lessens after a good run when it has had longer to get more oil on the plates/bearing ? - on the other hand could it be a clapped out centre bearing ? if so could THIS have been caused by oil starvation on short runs ?

A bit of background.. I ride all year round, pretty much every day (ice and snow permitting) my commute to work is only 3 to 4 miles but with longer trips at weekends and on some evenings. I religiously warm-up the engine until the first bar appears on the temp guage before setting off and the bike is always up to full operating temp by the time I get to work, even in Winter. Oil changes with Castrol Power1 Racing about every 2000 miles. I do very little off-road riding and then only on easy gravel roads, I don't do 'clutchless' gear changes or slip the clutch. The clutch works fine, it doesn't slip or drag, I have no problems with gear changes or finding neutral and I've never had to adjust the clutch.

LASTLY.. Can anyone recommend a good clutch pack ? (I was going to order Original Triumph but both Fowlers and World of Triumph say these are no longer available ?) I've heard good things about Barnett clutch packs but can't seem to find one for the Tiger 800 anywhere in the UK !.. EBC  maybe ?.. Again, any advice or recommendations gratefully received !!
 

[chico]

You might want to tell us how many miles on the odo.

Chico

[Poacher67]

Originally Posted by chico

You might want to tell us how many miles on the odo.

Chico

Thanks for responding Chico.. The bike has 24000 miles on the clock, it is booked in for the BIG dealer service..

[K1W1]

The Castrol Power1 4t Racing is 5W/40 so in simplistic terms it is thinner when cold (5W rather that 10W with the semi synthetic) and the same when hot (40W in both cases) so you could potentially get slightly different noises for the first minute or so until the oil heats up but after that both oils should be the same. The Castrol oil should in theory circulate more easily and quickly through the engine at initial start up and warm up quicker particularly in very cold weather.
Even though when hot both oils are the same viscosity I believe I can hear different engine noises between semi synthetic and full synthetic but that could be in my mind.
What do Triumph recommend for the 2013 model? I thought it was semi synthetic.

[K1W1]

Originally Posted by Poacher67

LASTLY.. Can anyone recommend a good clutch pack ? (I was going to order Original Triumph but both Fowlers and World of Triumph say these are no longer available ?) I've heard good things about Barnett clutch packs but can't seem to find one for the Tiger 800 anywhere in the UK !.. EBC  maybe ?.. Again, any advice or recommendations gratefully received !!

You may find that the clutch pack for the 2015-2017 models is the same.

[Poacher67]

Thanks for your response K1W1 - I panicked when I read your reply !! - I thought to myself '5w/40 ?.. The oil you've been using is too thin you ****!...' - I shot into the garage and checked the container but it is 10w/40.. phew.. I didn't know this myself and I can't speak for what is available in Oz but apparently, in the UK, Castrol Power1 4T Racing comes in both 5w/40 and 10w/40, Triumph do recommend the 10w/40 version.. I always buy my oils from the same firm and just re-order what I had the last time so given that the last lot was 10w/40 it should have been 10w/40 all the way through..

Luckily I got the original owners pouch/pack with the bike and the Owners Manual in it states the engine oil should be - '10W/40 or 10W/50, semi or fully synthetic motorcycle engine oil that meets specification API SH (or higher) and JASO MA, such as Castrol Power1 Racing 4T (fully synthetic)' - It then goes on to state you shouldn't use chemical additives or the clutch could slip and you should not use 'mineral, vegetable, non-detergent oil, castor based oils or any oil not conforming to the required specification' or it may 'cause instant, severe engine damage'..

I just rode home from work - I gave it a couple of minutes to warm up (until the first bar appeared on the temp gauge) then I came the longer way home - unfortunately still only about 5 miles - and thrashed it all the way, listening with my visor up. Even after this short journey the noise lessens dramatically under acceleration and under hard acceleration it seems to disappear altogether.. The really frustrating bit is that everything functions perfectly, it just sounds like somebody shaking a tin bucket full of old sockets !.. I think I might just throw the kitchen sink at it and replace the full clutch plate stack, springs, both bearings and the rumble washer and guide, that way I should have the problem covered no matter what it is, I was just hoping someone out there might be able to pinpoint the cause of the problem for me so I could avoid it happening again !..

[Poacher67]

Originally Posted by K1W1

You may find that the clutch pack for the 2015-2017 models is the same.

I think you're right, they are the same but they don't seem to be available either !..

[K1W1]

Originally Posted by Poacher67

Thanks for your response K1W1 - I panicked when I read your reply !! - I thought to myself '5w/40 ?.. The oil you've been using is too thin you ****!...' - I shot into the garage and checked the container but it is 10w/40.. phew.. I didn't know this myself and I can't speak for what is available in Oz but apparently, in the UK, Castrol Power1 4T Racing comes in both 5w/40 and 10w/40, Triumph do recommend the 10w/40 version.. I always buy my oils from the same firm and just re-order what I had the last time so given that the last lot was 10w/40 it should have been 10w/40 all the way through..

I doubt that you would have any problems with 5W/40 but you don’t have so it won’t be an issue.
I assume you know this but in case you or others don’t. The first number is the viscosity of the oil when cold and the second is the viscosity when at operating temp. The lower the number the thinner the oil effectively.
5W oil will stay thinner in cold temps and will allow the engine to start easier and warm up faster. At the other end 40W oil is thinner at temp than 50W oil. Typically you would use 50W oil in places with high ambient temps like outback Australia in summer.
I’ve heard all sorts of strange noises from engines over the years. The Tiger probably has the widest variety of strange noises of any bike I have owned but I have learnt to ignore them. If the engine has fuel, oil and coolant I figure if it’s going to go bang there is not much I can do about it so I don’t let it worry me. I have found that the more you worry about these things the worse they appear to become.

[Poacher67]

Originally Posted by K1W1

I think you may be right.. The noise has been this loud for a fair while now but nothing untoward seems to have happened so far (touch wood !..) I started the bike this morning and it was as rowdy as usual, After work I decided to go for a good run, just returned from a 45 miler and it is pretty much silent. It's like it's fixed itself (some hope) but I know it will be back again in the morning !.. I'm going to go ahead with the clutch refurb/rebuild anyway and hope tht puts the issue to bed on a permanent basis.. Thanks again for your thoughts on the problem, Ride Safe K1W1 !!