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Offline Tiger Balm

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Re: flip up lids?
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2011, 03:47:50 PM »
Rode teh XC with the Hornet DS yesterday, slightly quieter than the XR1000. It may look more the adventure type of lid, I used it for my SuperMoto days, and now off roading.

But strangely the Hornet, similar to the tourX etc is worse in the rain than the XR even though it has a more curved visor, I thought the water would disperse easier, it does not, so not sure if to use it on long tours and wet days.....the larger screen may help??
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Offline GRN

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Re: flip up lids?
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2011, 08:36:01 PM »
Keep in mind that flip up lids don't offer the same degree of protection as full face lids do when really put to the test. I'm sure they'll improve with time, but for now I won't own one.
Greg - Seattle, WA
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'04 ST1300 SOLD... Heavily customized DR650 in the works 8^)

Offline b1kerb0y

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Re: flip up lids?
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2011, 11:28:11 PM »
*Originally Posted by GRN [+]
Keep in mind that flip up lids don't offer the same degree of protection as full face lids do when really put to the test. I'm sure they'll improve with time, but for now I won't own one.

Thats exactly the reason why Arai wont make a flip up front helmet  :028:
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Offline healdem

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Re: flip up lids?
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2011, 11:44:42 PM »
*Originally Posted by b1kerb0y [+]
*Originally Posted by GRN [+]
Keep in mind that flip up lids don't offer the same degree of protection as full face lids do when really put to the test. I'm sure they'll improve with time, but for now I won't own one.

Thats exactly the reason why Arai wont make a flip up front helmet  :028:

coud be that, could be they are takingthe high moral ground, could also be patent issues, y'never know, theres so much BS abotu helmets that its hard to tell. even the UK government's much vaunted "sharp" scheme has been pilloried for the assumptions behind it
http://sharp.direct.gov.uk/
the problem is apparently the base methodology looked at damage to helmets after accidents, rather than tryong to undertstand what was the first impact pint. apparently some cliam this means sahrp is more concerned about side on impact, tarthe than head on.

however it doers provide some usefull information in my books


as to flip up lids, all I can say is ahve had two
a Shark Evoline and a shortlived Shoei Multitech.
the Shark is a great idea, great helmet but let down in seevral areas its  :172: noisy even with earplugs, the visor doesnt' seal properly meanign water and or cold air gets into the helmet, it very bulky, meaning it can be tricky to put into panniers and the like. its great saving grace to my mind was that you coudl legally ride with it closed or open (most modular helmets are flip up strictly when stationary of off the bike), meaning the evoline is great in summer, in urban areas at low speeds I'm happy with the chin guard up, ont he outskirts change to full face mode without stopping.

the Multitech, what can I say, fantastic helmet, very quiet, the pinlock was a revelation. couldn't ride with the lid flipped up

For me I like the convience of a flip to lid, especially as I wear glasses, its a right pain to take the lid off if you wear those.... refuelling is a doddle, no need to remove a lid when fillign or paying, if you want to ask directions flip the lid up, its less intimidating / more personal with the lid up. in all seriousness if there was a serious problem with flip to lids then no manufacturer woudl make 'em, and I can't see any Police force using 'em either.

At the risk of igntining the standard debate over helmets, I don't think there is a huge difference in temrs of actual survivability / saftey across the various helmets, ceretain not that the price differences would suggest. yes there are differences in material choices used in  the outer shell or the inner lining, but the cricitcal bit is virtually the same.. thats the mid layer polystyrene that actually does the energy absorption bit. so in my books its about personal choice, its about making certain the lid fits you. then the rest is down to style, weight and so on.

Offline Stevo

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Re: flip up lids?
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2011, 08:40:28 PM »
I've always had full face until now. Last year I bought a Shoei Multitech and love it. When the flip up is down it doesn't look like a flip lid and in the summer when it's roasting or abroad in the heat it's great. I did try the Schubert buy hated the size of the shell and the fact that it was so soundproofed and tight it made me feel claustrophobic.
Orange Tiger XC with ABS arrived 5th May 2011

Offline KildareMan

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Re: flip up lids?
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2011, 01:12:22 PM »
*Originally Posted by healdem [+]
At the risk of igntining the standard debate over helmets, I don't think there is a huge difference in temrs of actual survivability / saftey across the various helmets, ceretain not that the price differences would suggest. yes there are differences in material choices used in  the outer shell or the inner lining, but the cricitcal bit is virtually the same.. thats the mid layer polystyrene that actually does the energy absorption bit. so in my books its about personal choice, its about making certain the lid fits you. then the rest is down to style, weight and so on.

You're right of course.  There is sooooo much BS about helmets it's unbelievable.  I once had the exact argument with someone re flip fronts and ended up reading the ECE 22.05 standard.  That shut him up.  Basically flip fronts have to pass the same standard as full face, here in europe anyway.  ECE 22.05 is accepted as being the best standard due to the lower energy transference levels.  DOT is next with Snell bringing up the rear because of the higher energy levels transferring to the old grey matter.

Long and short it's personal choice.  I was happy with the multitech but eventually found it exasperated a neck problem due to the weight.  The RSR2 is so light you forget you have it on. 
Stupid is as stupid does.
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Offline STRoll

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Re: flip up lids?
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2011, 06:35:15 PM »
I seem to be blessed (or cursed) with an Arai shaped head? I have tried other makes for size shoei are nearly ok but I can't get a shark lid on without extreme discomfort. The flip ups I've tried have always been bulky/heavy.
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Offline GRN

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Re: flip up lids?
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2011, 08:01:44 AM »
*Originally Posted by KildareMan [+]

You're right of course.  There is sooooo much BS about helmets it's unbelievable.  I once had the exact argument with someone re flip fronts and ended up reading the ECE 22.05 standard.  That shut him up.  Basically flip fronts have to pass the same standard as full face, here in europe anyway.  ECE 22.05 is accepted as being the best standard due to the lower energy transference levels.  DOT is next with Snell bringing up the rear because of the higher energy levels transferring to the old grey matter.

Long and short it's personal choice.  I was happy with the multitech but eventually found it exasperated a neck problem due to the weight.  The RSR2 is so light you forget you have it on.
Absolutely, risk management is personal choice, but lets bring one significant fact to light here...
The standards don't account for the inner head support of the frontal area where the chin bar and screen are, which is where roughly 45% of the significant impacts happen. Flips are basically 3/4 lids, with a modular chin bar. Many do not support your head from moving significantly forward in a frontal impact. I can very easily mash the chin bar and screen of a properly fitted multitech (and the vast majority of other flips I have tried) against my nose and chin without significant pressure distributed to other areas, where the vast majority of the impact energy will transfer immediately to my jaw, essentially offering little more than rash protection over what a 3/4 lid would. My RF1000 takes both hands and a great deal of effort to make the chin bar touch my face, at which point most of the pressure I feel is distributed throughout areas that have the benefit of the foam mid layer.

Labels and standards and hooplah aside, that is a very telling test to try if you want to fit a modular/flip properly. The only flip I couldn't easily press against my face was otherwise unbearably uncomfortable, and still offered less protection than my RF1000. I'm not going to pay more for less, thanks.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2011, 08:03:46 AM by GRN »
Greg - Seattle, WA
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Offline brid tiger

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Re: flip up lids?
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2011, 05:36:59 PM »


Had a Shoei many moons ago if you forgot to open it when removing it would rip your nose of .Best lid i have had is the rx7 on my 3rd now ..
Based in Bridlington on the East coast of the UK............

Offline b1kerb0y

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Re: flip up lids?
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2011, 11:14:46 PM »
*Originally Posted by brid tiger [+]
Best lid i have had is the rx7 on my 3rd now ..

Im on my 1st rx7, ive got to agree with you. Fantastic lid  :028:
If ignorance is bliss, why arent more people happy?????

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