Triumph Tiger 800 Forum

Tiger 800 - Main Discussion Section => Tiger 800 - General Discussion => Topic started by: Dick on January 02, 2019, 09:36:11 PM

Title: Tight chain,
Post by: Dick on January 02, 2019, 09:36:11 PM
Having got the Tiger out for what was called the chilley willly  ride out ,on New Year's Day ,not used for 3 months ,she felt a bit harsh @ high revs ,on cleaning her ,found the chain had gone tight over that time ( i do spray it ever other time out )
Title: Re: Tight chain,
Post by: Stevie.P on January 02, 2019, 10:07:29 PM
Do any links look as though they aren't straightening out on the long lower run? I would individually check each link is free to move relative to the one each side to confirm none has seized. :084:
Title: Re: Tight chain,
Post by: Dick on January 02, 2019, 10:43:37 PM
Will check that thanks.
Title: Re: Tight chain,
Post by: Dick on January 08, 2019, 06:23:58 PM
Went mad, took the wheel off to clean the chain better,on putting the wheel back, I realised since I have owned the bike 3 months the wheel spindle has been 1 dot out! 6 on o/s 5 on n/s,what effect would that have had ? Other than Sproket & chain wear,noise,lost of power, vibration. !!!!!! Can't wait for week end .
Title: Re: Tight chain,
Post by: Dick on January 09, 2019, 07:49:29 AM
Another thing I thought off,the rear pads will be wedged!
Title: Re: Tight chain,
Post by: tauzero on January 17, 2019, 02:12:10 PM
The markings on the swinging arm can be inaccurate - check rear wheel alignment by putting a plank or rod against the side of the wheel and making sure it's parallel with the bike centre line.
Title: Re: Tight chain,
Post by: AvgBear on January 17, 2019, 08:15:21 PM
*Originally Posted by tauzero [+]
The markings on the swinging arm can be inaccurate -
That's got to be one if the simplest things to do correctly at the factory..?  :114:  :087:
Title: Re: Tight chain,
Post by: Dick on January 19, 2019, 08:20:01 PM
Only racing teams would bother,well the One's that win do.(whats why they win )
Title: Re: Tight chain,
Post by: tauzero on January 20, 2019, 02:16:59 AM
And anybody that didn't want their chain to wear more rapidly than necessary.
Title: Re: Tight chain,
Post by: skinneroo on January 20, 2019, 06:11:27 PM
*Originally Posted by tauzero [+]
The markings on the swinging arm can be inaccurate - check rear wheel alignment by putting a plank or rod against the side of the wheel and making sure it's parallel with the bike centre line.

Got my swinging arm off at the moment to grease bearings.
Think I will measure the distance from the spindle to the marks and check for accuracy.
Title: Re: Tight chain,
Post by: Dick on January 20, 2019, 06:23:40 PM
Please tell us the results.
Title: Re: Tight chain,
Post by: skinneroo on January 20, 2019, 08:00:04 PM
*Originally Posted by Dick [+]
Please tell us the results.

Will do. :002:
Title: Re: Tight chain,
Post by: craggsy on January 22, 2019, 12:08:22 AM
*Originally Posted by skinneroo [+]
Got my swinging arm off at the moment to grease bearings.
Think I will measure the distance from the spindle to the marks and check for accuracy.
Off topic, but at what mileage are you greasing bearings. And, do you do a lot of dirt? Just wondering
Title: Re: Tight chain,
Post by: Paulhere on January 22, 2019, 10:01:22 AM
*Originally Posted by Dick [+]
Went mad, took the wheel off to clean the chain better,on putting the wheel back, I realised since I have owned the bike 3 months the wheel spindle has been 1 dot out! 6 on o/s 5 on n/s,what effect would that have had ? Other than Sproket & chain wear,noise,lost of power, vibration. !!!!!! Can't wait for week end .

Bit confused here, not difficult :087: How come you only noticed when putting the wheel back? You would have had to back the adjusters right off to get chain off to get the wheel out.
Title: Re: Tight chain,
Post by: skinneroo on January 22, 2019, 06:26:19 PM
*Originally Posted by craggsy [+]
Off topic, but at what mileage are you greasing bearings. And, do you do a lot of dirt? Just wondering

Bike is 5 yrs old and done 6k (pathetic I know), zero dirt riding.
Got the wheels off to have new tyres fitted and thought I would do some routine maintenance on the suspension.
Gave the components a good fettle and cleaned the chain while it was apart.

Swing arm measurements tbc.
Title: Re: Tight chain,
Post by: Dick on January 22, 2019, 06:33:15 PM
That's got Me thinking? I must have done It wrong,  your right.
Title: Re: Tight chain,
Post by: Dick on January 22, 2019, 07:30:24 PM
Just read my haynes manual  page6.24 and realised I did not touch the adjusters 'only took the spacers off. Also show how to align rear wheel  so it was wrong!
Title: Re: Tight chain,
Post by: K1W1 on January 22, 2019, 09:53:27 PM
*Originally Posted by Paulhere [+]
You would have had to back the adjusters right off to get chain off to get the wheel out.

No you don't. You can easily remove and reinstall the rear wheel without touching the adjusters, did just that on Saturday when I fitted a new rear tyre and brake pads.
Pull the axle out and the wheel drops down, roll it a little forward and remove the chain. Effectively reverse the procedure to put the wheel back. After I put the chain back on I lift the wheel and put a 2" piece of wood under it which puts the wheel at near enough the correct height to slide the axle back through.
I actually like the way the adjusters work in the Tigers much better than the ones that screw in from the rear like on many other bikes.
Title: Re: Tight chain,
Post by: Paulhere on January 23, 2019, 10:20:50 AM
Ok, never considered not touching the adjusters, good practice is to remove, clean & re-grease them at every opportunity. I can see now how so many people have had them seize in the swing-arm, at great expense.  :005:  :087:

Think I'll continue doing like Frank says.  :152:
Title: Re: Tight chain,
Post by: K1W1 on January 23, 2019, 11:34:29 AM
*Originally Posted by Paulhere [+]
I can see now how so many people have had them seize in the swing-arm, at great expense.

We don't have the seizing issues in this part of the world.
Title: Re: Tight chain,
Post by: walt on January 23, 2019, 01:09:47 PM
*Originally Posted by Paulhere [+]
Ok, never considered not touching the adjusters, good practice is to remove, clean & re-grease them at every opportunity. I can see now how so many people have had them seize in the swing-arm, at great expense.  :005:  :087:

Think I'll continue doing like Frank says.  :152:


its a weak spot on a few bikes, mine get unscrewed and greased every time wheel is off
Title: Re: Tight chain,
Post by: Stevie.P on January 23, 2019, 02:07:09 PM
*Originally Posted by walt [+]
...  mine get unscrewed and greased every time wheel is off

 :0461: .... healthy coating of Copaslip .... as 'every time' isn't even once a year (more like 18 months), usually only tyre change time.  :028:
Title: Re: Tight chain,
Post by: tauzero on January 23, 2019, 06:24:44 PM
*Originally Posted by Paulhere [+]
Bit confused here, not difficult :087: How come you only noticed when putting the wheel back? You would have had to back the adjusters right off to get chain off to get the wheel out.

You don't take the spindle out and then roll the wheel forward to release the chain? It's the way I've always done it, no need to readjust the chain afterwards then.
Title: Re: Tight chain,
Post by: Paulhere on January 23, 2019, 06:30:46 PM
*Originally Posted by tauzero [+]
You don't take the spindle out and then roll the wheel forward to release the chain? It's the way I've always done it, no need to readjust the chain afterwards then.

So you don't remove, clean & re-grease the adjuster either. Like said previously, no wonder so many are seized in swingarms. It's been posted up on here so many times yet people still persist in not maintaining that adjuster. Have you not read the last few posts.
Title: Re: Tight chain,
Post by: tauzero on January 23, 2019, 06:34:41 PM
Stainless adjuster bolts, copper greased when fitted. Haven't had any problems with them seizing.
Title: Re: Tight chain,
Post by: Paulhere on January 23, 2019, 06:50:10 PM
*Originally Posted by tauzero [+]
Stainless adjuster bolts, copper greased when fitted. Haven't had any problems with them seizing.

Probably be ok, they aren't tightened as such. You may have noticed Triumph do not fit St/St screws into alloy, there is good reason.
https://www.essentracomponents.com/en-gb/news/product-resources/how-to-prevent-galling-on-stainless-steel-bolts
Title: Re: Tight chain,
Post by: Stevie.P on January 24, 2019, 11:26:54 AM
*Originally Posted by Paulhere [+]
You may have noticed Triumph do not fit St/St screws into alloy, there is good reason.
https://www.essentracomponents.com/en-gb/news/product-resources/how-to-prevent-galling-on-stainless-steel-bolts

Luckily then that the adjuster screws aren't directly into alloy .. but steel (boss type) thread inserts.  :028:

(https://photos-cdn.tiger800.co.uk/h6UE.jpg)
Title: Re: Tight chain,
Post by: Paulhere on January 24, 2019, 12:18:00 PM
Ok, I should go specsavers. The issue of corrosion is only marginally increased in that case then. See link below. I would still remove, clean & re-grease the adjustment screw at every wheel out though. Why wouldn't you.

http://www.preservationscience.com/materials/metals/PGC.html
Title: Re: Tight chain,
Post by: Stevie.P on January 24, 2019, 12:40:53 PM
*Originally Posted by Paulhere [+]
Ok, I should go specsavers. The issue of corrosion is only marginally increased in that case then. See link below. I would still remove, clean & re-grease the adjustment screw at every wheel out though. Why wouldn't you.

Have S/S screws fitted and as said previous post personally I agree and do.  :028:

*Originally Posted by Stevie.P [+]
:0461: .... healthy coating of Copaslip .... as 'every time' isn't even once a year (more like 18 months), usually only tyre change time.  :028:

Title: Re: Tight chain,
Post by: Dick on January 24, 2019, 05:56:22 PM
Sorry did not mean to open a bag of worms ,But very interesting site on corrosion.
Title: Re: Tight chain,
Post by: AvgBear on January 24, 2019, 10:07:37 PM
*Originally Posted by Dick [+]
Sorry did not mean to open a bag of worms
Prolly OK? -- folks got an education on metals/corrosion.

But...
*Originally Posted by tauzero [+]
The markings on the swinging arm can be inaccurate
Are they or aren't they?
Can the Triumph factory mark the swingarm correctly?  :187:
Title: Re: Tight chain,
Post by: Paulhere on January 25, 2019, 10:03:41 AM
*Originally Posted by AvgBear [+]
Can the Triumph factory mark the swingarm correctly?  :187:

It'll be done & checked in a fixture, Triumph adhere to their 1 in 10 check on all operations, any fail & the previous 10 are pulled for thorough inspection. Their q/c is excellent, standard automotive procedure.

Dicks issue would more likely be caused by a PO or dealer oik.
Title: Re: Tight chain,
Post by: skinneroo on January 26, 2019, 06:02:27 AM
Swing arm marks are within 0.5mm. It's what I expected as the arms will be cnc machined.
My measuring equipment was rudimentary, but i'm happy to trust the marks when adjusting the chain. :002:
Title: Re: Tight chain,
Post by: Stevie.P on January 26, 2019, 11:02:10 AM
*Originally Posted by skinneroo [+]
Swing arm marks are within 0.5mm. It's what I expected as the arms will be cnc machined.
My measuring equipment was rudimentary, but i'm happy to trust the marks when adjusting the chain. :002:

 :0461: With the way todays bikes are machined and assembled (including the frame) I would expect the swingarm adjuster indicator marks to be accurate enough for the bikes design use. On the other hand I freely joke that my, manufactured lots by hand on knackered old machinary, Meriden Bonneville was made to +/- 1/4".  :008:
Title: Re: Tight chain,
Post by: Sandal farm on January 30, 2019, 11:03:43 PM
A good idea to keep the adjuster  free as it's just cost me 60 to have the broken bolt spark eroded out of the swing in arm,  on the upside after rerouting the brake line wrongly I can now do the job really quickly
Title: Re: Tight chain,
Post by: tauzero on February 06, 2019, 01:05:02 PM
*Originally Posted by Paulhere [+]
Probably be ok, they aren't tightened as such. You may have noticed Triumph do not fit St/St screws into alloy, there is good reason.
https://www.essentracomponents.com/en-gb/news/product-resources/how-to-prevent-galling-on-stainless-steel-bolts

Triumph are using whirry tool things to screw in their fasteners at high speed, I'm not. And I use copper grease too. This might explain why, in 40 years of screwing stainless fasteners into aluminium, I've never had a problem.
Title: Re: Tight chain,
Post by: Stevie.P on February 06, 2019, 03:45:51 PM
*Originally Posted by tauzero [+]
Triumph are using whirry tool things to screw in their fasteners at high speed, I'm not. And I use copper grease too. This might explain why, in 40 years of screwing stainless fasteners into aluminium, I've never had a problem.

 :0461:  My 40yr old Meriden Bonnie has S/S screws fitting direct into alloy threads cut in the covers/casings (they didn't fit steel thread inserts back then, just used course pitch thread) and Copaslip and correct application of torque/tightness means I've never had to repair one yet.  :002:
Title: Re: Tight chain,
Post by: AvgBear on February 06, 2019, 05:28:33 PM
Interesting discussion.

A story: I was in the nut & bolt section of a local hardware store and met a m/c buddy who's a machinist/founder (he makes re-pop items for collector bikes) and I said, "Hey Mike, look - they've got stainless steel fasteners." He said: "Why would you want those? (his reply was actually more colorful...) They'll just cause galling of the threads."
It caused me to re-think things -- as all may not be as simple as perceived at first blush...

Another story -- an automotive machinist once gave me these words of wisdom: "Never let metal know you're in a hurry."
Title: Re: Tight chain,
Post by: Paulhere on February 06, 2019, 06:38:06 PM
I don't recall Meriden Triumph using St/St fasteners into alloy, can't imagine where. It's against all engineering principals. And far too costly to ever get past the accountants.

Boys in the club who've done a proper restoration job, had all the undamaged original fasteners re-plated.
Title: Re: Tight chain,
Post by: tauzero on February 08, 2019, 03:03:45 PM
*Originally Posted by Paulhere [+]
I don't recall Meriden Triumph using St/St fasteners into alloy, can't imagine where. It's against all engineering principals. And far too costly to ever get past the accountants.

They didn't. I, and many others, did. I've never had, or heard of, any problems. Not just with Meriden Triumphs, with any bikes. I've had to use extreme violence on many a non-stainless fastener, though.
Title: Re: Tight chain,
Post by: Paulhere on February 08, 2019, 03:08:26 PM
Think I got me a stalker.  :492: Bless

Title: Re: Tight chain,
Post by: tauzero on February 08, 2019, 04:40:22 PM
*Originally Posted by Paulhere [+]
Think I got me a stalker.  :492: Bless

Don't flatter yourself.
Title: Re: Tight chain,
Post by: Stevie.P on February 10, 2019, 11:52:29 PM
*Originally Posted by tauzero [+]
They didn't. I, and many others, did. I've never had, or heard of, any problems.

:0461: Every fastener S/S (since 94) and any other item available in S/S is fitted to my Bonnie. The Tiger is easy, plastic and barely any uncoated metal or chrome plated components requiring regular replacement due to rust. H & S regarding chemicals means todays chrome is little more than decorative standard, no longer hard wearing like original Meriden Triumph plated parts.


*Originally Posted by Paulhere [+]
Boys in the club who've done a proper restoration job, had all the undamaged original fasteners re-plated.

My Bonnie has always been ungaraged and for riding (was often my only transport 24/7) so I have no interest in 100% show standard. I have little/no time for maintenance or cleaning so lots of practical (but discreet) low maintenance & reliability mods have been done . quite a long list.

(https://photos-cdn.tiger800.co.uk/CgRe.jpg)
Title: Re: Tight chain,
Post by: Paulhere on February 11, 2019, 07:53:31 AM
That's a bit too nice to leave for the binmen to collect.  :038:
Title: Re: Tight chain,
Post by: walt on February 11, 2019, 11:09:36 AM
*Originally Posted by Paulhere [+]
That's a bit too nice to leave for the binmen to collect.  :038:


has to be actually in the bin...or they won't touch it.... :015:
Title: Re: Tight chain,
Post by: Stevie.P on February 11, 2019, 11:36:11 AM
*Originally Posted by walt [+]

has to be actually in the bin...or they won't touch it.... :015:

Actually they won't touch the bin there . it has to be put on the boundary, so half on the public path and half in the bike bay entrance. They get confused enough :138: with the fact I still put out a conventional bin, we were given weighted raffia type bags (1x brown & 1x green) to use because being up a bank from the road they wouldn't allow us wheelie bins, trouble is on a windy day you see bags blowing down the road (but not my dustbin - has a slab of stone in the bottom :005: ).