Triumph Tiger 800 Forum

Tiger 800 - Main Discussion Section => General Maintenance and Servicing => Topic started by: K1W1 on October 05, 2019, 09:32:21 AM

Title: Can't change gear because of.....
Post by: K1W1 on October 05, 2019, 09:32:21 AM
First of all it was the broken spring.
Then the spring was upgraded and the selector then the detent arm broke.
Now it is premature wear on the pivot plate.

I first saw the issue in this thread

https://www.tiger800.co.uk/index.php/topic,26811.0.html

When pulling my 2016 XRX apart to see why it was not changing gear the wear on the plate and the detent wheel were obvious. Pushing the plate in while operating the gear lever resulted in fault free gear changes but unfortunately that is not possible with the engine running.

The parts that we are replacing are part 13 in this diagram. The inner side of the pivot plate edges have worn so they do not engage the detent wheel fully.
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:live.staticflickr.com/65535/48845545738_e6cf6f6215_o.png) (https://flic.kr/p/2hqjbZG)

and part 5 in this one
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:live.staticflickr.com/65535/48845907651_5b41328db3_o.png) (https://flic.kr/p/2hqm3zz)

It is probably not necessary to replace part 5 but it is showing wear so I am not going to stuff around and only have to do it later anyway.

My daughters boyfriend (a trained Triumph mechanic who works for the Australian Triumph importer) said as soon as he saw it.

"Classic Triumph gearbox issue"

BTW: just to put something to rest right up front. I do not ride with my toe resting on the gear lever.
Title: Re: Can't change gear because of.....
Post by: KildareMan on October 05, 2019, 11:27:04 AM
Nice succinct fault diagnosis and plan of action.
Title: Re: Can't change gear because of.....
Post by: Bladerunner99 on October 05, 2019, 02:45:09 PM
That is not good at all.  Have you considered contacting Triumph, I know it out of warranty but should not have failed at such a low km and young age.
Title: Re: Can't change gear because of.....
Post by: Paulhere on October 05, 2019, 04:44:25 PM
I wonder if FazerPhil has had any gearbox problems, he must be coming up to 180,000 miles on his. He's only mentioned a starter failing. Phil, if you're looking in, any g/b probs?

One of my pals had 8 gearboxes in his Explorer, then a new frame 'cos the paint fell off it.  :157:
Title: Re: Can't change gear because of.....
Post by: K1W1 on October 05, 2019, 05:36:23 PM
*Originally Posted by Bladerunner99 [+]
That is not good at all.  Have you considered contacting Triumph, I know it out of warranty but should not have failed at such a low km and young age.

Canít be bothered to be honest. It is not going to cost me much for the repair and the agro with dealing with Triumph Australia is not worth it in this case. This post is more for info for others in case anybody else wants to argue their point, and I think it is a valid one there is a manufacturing defect here.
Title: Re: Can't change gear because of.....
Post by: philmcglass on October 06, 2019, 03:04:50 PM
Would be interesting to see pics of old and new parts.
Title: Re: Can't change gear because of.....
Post by: K1W1 on October 06, 2019, 11:22:28 PM
*Originally Posted by philmcglass [+]
Would be interesting to see pics of old and new parts.

I will get some pics once I get the new parts and can have new and old side by side.
Title: Re: Can't change gear because of.....
Post by: Bladerunner99 on October 07, 2019, 09:44:16 AM
*Originally Posted by K1W1 [+]
Canít be bothered to be honest. It is not going to cost me much for the repair and the agro with dealing with Triumph Australia is not worth it in this case. This post is more for info for others in case anybody else wants to argue their point, and I think it is a valid one there is a manufacturing defect here.

Fair comment K1W1, I can see your point, hope it all goes well for you and many thanks for sharing with us all.

This however has me concerned that this may be something I encounter as I approach a similar mileage, even more concerning, is that any replacement parts will be of the same crap quality materials and liable to the same fate in time... Not Good Enough Triumph!!!

I now know why the gearbox is so silky smooth, the components are made from Butter!!! :110:
Title: Re: Can't change gear because of.....
Post by: SOHUTAA on October 07, 2019, 10:44:02 AM
*Originally Posted by K1W1 [+]
I will get some pics once I get the new parts and can have new and old side by side.

either I read it wrong, but I did not read the mileage of your bike.
Title: Re: Can't change gear because of.....
Post by: K1W1 on October 07, 2019, 10:46:49 AM
39,000 km or 24,000 miles
April 2016 new.

It will be interesting to see if any others have this issue. That is two on the forum in fairly quick succession. It could simply be a batch that had slightly less hardened metal or something.
Title: Re: Can't change gear because of.....
Post by: chico on October 07, 2019, 05:40:46 PM
*Originally Posted by K1W1 [+]
39,000 km or 24,000 miles
April 2016 new.

It will be interesting to see if any others have this issue. That is two on the forum in fairly quick succession. It could simply be a batch that had slightly less hardened metal or something.

It seems like this is an endemic problem, perhaps a design fault. My 2011R had the same failure after 18 K miles, I doubt it was a "bad batch" issue given the different years and location of the affected trannys.

Chico
Title: Re: Can't change gear because of.....
Post by: KildareMan on October 07, 2019, 06:31:16 PM
*Originally Posted by chico [+]
It seems like this is an endemic problem, perhaps a design fault. My 2011R had the same failure after 18 K miles, I doubt it was a "bad batch" issue given the different years and location of the affected trannys.

Chico

2 is not endemic. It's hardly a cold.

2011 with 80,000 and no  such issues
Title: Re: Can't change gear because of.....
Post by: chico on October 07, 2019, 07:18:16 PM
Just because you're one of the lucky ones,would Kildare prefer sporadic? :187:

Chico
Title: Re: Can't change gear because of.....
Post by: KildareMan on October 07, 2019, 07:40:41 PM
*Originally Posted by chico [+]
Just because you're one of the lucky ones,would Kildare prefer sporadic? :187:

Chico

😁👍
Title: Re: Can't change gear because of.....
Post by: K1W1 on October 07, 2019, 09:29:47 PM
*Originally Posted by chico [+]
Just because you're one of the lucky ones,would Kildare prefer sporadic? :187:

Chico

Based on the comment made when the gearbox was opened I'm picking way more frequent than sporadic.
BTW: The parts required are going to cost less than AUD$100.00. At least that is a bonus.
Title: Re: Can't change gear because of.....
Post by: chuckxc on October 08, 2019, 11:20:33 PM

Could this apparently uncommon problem be rider-induced? Shifting technique - heavy foot, no clutch etc ?  :084:
Title: Re: Can't change gear because of.....
Post by: chico on October 09, 2019, 01:07:49 AM
I had the work done at my local dealer and was told that the clutch plates at 18k miles looked almost new so I don't think I abused the clutch. In addition, I've been riding motorbikes since 1966 and never had a clutch issue with any of them, ever. :110: :002:

Chico
Title: Re: Can't change gear because of.....
Post by: K1W1 on October 09, 2019, 03:24:59 AM
*Originally Posted by chuckxc [+]
Could this apparently uncommon problem be rider-induced? Shifting technique - heavy foot, no clutch etc ?  :084:

Compared to the way you ride I'm gentle. If mines gone yours will not be far away at a lower mileage. :001:
As with Chicos post above the clutch plates look brand new.
As per Frenchys comment when he pulled the clutch. "Classic Triumph Gearbox issue". He will know way better than anybody here except perhaps Muddy Sump as he works on Triumphs all day most days.
Title: Re: Can't change gear because of.....
Post by: chuckxc on October 09, 2019, 04:26:25 AM
I meant shifting without the clutch. Just asking.
Title: Re: Can't change gear because of.....
Post by: K1W1 on October 09, 2019, 05:08:42 AM
*Originally Posted by chuckxc [+]
I meant shifting without the clutch. Just asking.

I paid for that clutch. I'm going to get value for money from it by using it!  :001: :001:
Title: Re: Can't change gear because of.....
Post by: K1W1 on October 12, 2019, 06:40:11 AM
Photos as requested.

New part
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:live.staticflickr.com/65535/48883240338_d0e40dfc9b_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2htDohA)

(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:live.staticflickr.com/65535/48883956437_bd62ffd0af_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2htH4a8)

Faulty part
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:live.staticflickr.com/65535/48883772946_9e0621add3_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2htG7Bu)

(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:live.staticflickr.com/65535/48883956832_4a776f9a3c_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2htH4gW)

(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:live.staticflickr.com/65535/48883773561_47bc1e5223_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2htG7N6)

New part
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:live.staticflickr.com/65535/48883244573_5162f73780_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2htDpxB)

Old part
I won't call this part faulty as it only had very minor wear that you could feel with your finger but as it was so cheap I decided to replace it anyway rather than put the thing back together and find that it needed replacing now or in the near future.

(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:live.staticflickr.com/65535/48883773371_ae6f77085b_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2htG7JP)

and for those who still labour under the impression that Triumphs are a product manufactured in a factory somewhere in the UK.

(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:live.staticflickr.com/65535/48883241303_f3b691f6cc_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2htDoze)
Title: Re: Can't change gear because of.....
Post by: Derchef1962 on October 12, 2019, 09:39:58 AM
Interesting thread, but I really doubt this is a major and common problem as this is the first post ever on this forum regarding this particular gear box failure. Compared to the numerous posts concerning the gear shaft spring or the pin this is indeed a "cold" and not an endemic as someone here said already. Just trying to make this point and if I were in K1W1's shoes I'd be seriously p*ssed and angry.

As to Taiwan: hmmm that's new to me we all know about the Triumph plants in Taiwan but given that we live in a global world (and whatever Greta says: this will not change) it is no wonder that the parts come from all over the world.
Title: Re: Can't change gear because of.....
Post by: Paulhere on October 12, 2019, 09:48:12 AM
*Originally Posted by Derchef1962 [+]
As to Taiwan: hmmm that's new to me we all know about the Triumph plants in Taiwan but given that we live in a global world (and whatever Greta says: this will not change) it is no wonder that the parts come from all over the world.

The Triumph plants are in Thailand not Taiwan.
Title: Re: Can't change gear because of.....
Post by: K1W1 on October 12, 2019, 09:49:17 AM
*Originally Posted by Derchef1962 [+]
Interesting thread, but I really doubt this is a major and common problem as this is the first post ever on this forum regarding this particular gear box failure.

If you read the first post of the thread you will see I referenced a previous thread on this forum a couple of weeks ago where the same failure occurred. It may or may not be the harbinger of more posts but keep in mind that all failures of any sort start with a single occurrence.
The point of this thread is to provide information to others in the future if they experience a similar problem.
Title: Re: Can't change gear because of.....
Post by: KildareMan on October 12, 2019, 11:27:06 AM
Doesn't seem much wear at all really. Just goes to show the tolerances on modern engines are so much tighter than say even 20 years ago.
Title: Re: Can't change gear because of.....
Post by: AvgBear on October 12, 2019, 05:03:35 PM
Wondering if spring #14 in 1st post is of sufficient tension?
Shimming under washer #15 may help contact/shifting (or not)?
(small parts are cheap...)
Title: Re: Can't change gear because of.....
Post by: K1W1 on October 13, 2019, 09:30:33 AM
Went for a short ride today, about 120km to check things out. Everything okay with no change in shift feel.
Wishful thinking perhaps but I think at the moment at least there is a far smaller clunk changing from N to 1 than there used to be.
Title: Re: Can't change gear because of.....
Post by: Johnjo on October 13, 2019, 09:35:32 PM
Congratulations on a job well done K1W1.
Title: Re: Can't change gear because of.....
Post by: Derchef1962 on October 20, 2019, 10:17:31 AM
*Originally Posted by Paulhere [+]
The Triumph plants are in Thailand not Taiwan.

correct typo on my side
Title: Re: Can't change gear because of.....
Post by: Derchef1962 on October 20, 2019, 10:21:57 AM
*Originally Posted by K1W1 [+]
If you read the first post of the thread you will see I referenced a previous thread on this forum a couple of weeks ago where the same failure occurred. It may or may not be the harbinger of more posts but keep in mind that all failures of any sort start with a single occurrence.
The point of this thread is to provide information to others in the future if they experience a similar problem.

overlooked that, you are right.
What puzzles me is that your bike and the one in that thread do have relative low mileage and there thousands out there with considerable higher mileage and no problem of that sort.
Title: Re: Can't change gear because of.....
Post by: Londonglide on October 20, 2019, 09:27:11 PM
Interestingly, Fowlers list it for my 2012 XC as Kit, Detent Wheel & Plate part no T1194905

Appears to be modified parts for bikes up to '14MY .

 According to the 675 owners site, its more common than you might think..
Title: Re: Can't change gear because of.....
Post by: K1W1 on October 26, 2019, 11:03:04 PM
Two more occurrences of this issue with Tigers have popped up on Facebook.  Whilst it is still not common I suspect we might be at the start of another broken selector spring or worn starter motor bushes saga.
Title: Re: Can't change gear because of.....
Post by: Georgeinabz on November 05, 2019, 09:04:43 PM
Was the job easy to do , total cost ? Sounds far better than my bm1200gs final drive which are unofficially consumable items , £400  a shot to get rebuilt and pot luck how long it will last ranging from 15k to 45k one of the main reasons for switching to the tiger , I will not buy another single sided swing arm bike - style over best engineering practice.
Title: Re: Can't change gear because of.....
Post by: K1W1 on November 06, 2019, 12:52:38 AM
*Originally Posted by Georgeinabz [+]
Was the job easy to do , total cost ?

A total of about AUD$100 in parts and I guess an hour and a half labour. You do need to pull the clutch basket off but that is about the hardest part. Donít even need to drain the oil.
Title: Re: Can't change gear because of.....
Post by: Georgeinabz on November 06, 2019, 09:02:32 AM
Thatís not too bad ,Iíve found all bikes have design flaws but if itís cheap enough to fix that softens the blow to the owner
Title: Re: Can't change gear because of.....
Post by: Laura-Ann on November 11, 2019, 07:03:54 PM
Having spoken to my dealers today, sounds like mine has gone the same. Had been thinking it was the more normal pin issue.
Title: Re: Can't change gear because of.....
Post by: Paulhere on November 24, 2019, 09:19:27 PM
*Originally Posted by Laura-Ann [+]
Having spoken to my dealers today, sounds like mine has gone the same. Had been thinking it was the more normal pin issue.

Has the dealer sorted your bike now?

What year & mileage is the XRT? Sounding like it could be a bad batch of components.
Title: Re: Can't change gear because of.....
Post by: Laura-Ann on November 25, 2019, 01:06:47 PM
*Originally Posted by Paulhere [+]
Has the dealer sorted your bike now?

What year & mileage is the XRT? Sounding like it could be a bad batch of components.

Yeah it was sorted the other week, all back together and changes gears.

 Bikes a '17 plate just over 14,000 on the clock
Title: Re: Can't change gear because of.....
Post by: Paulhere on November 25, 2019, 01:12:21 PM
*Originally Posted by Laura-Ann [+]
Yeah it was sorted the other week, all back together and changes gears.

 Bikes a '17 plate just over 14,000 on the clock

That's good to hear it's fixed, bad that it happened on a nearly new low mile bike. Did the dealer/mechanic comment on the cause or component quality?

Don't expect this on a long running model, but then, procurement only have to change supplier of components for it all to go wrong.