Triumph Tiger 800 Forum

Tiger 800 / 900 - Main Discussion Section => Tiger 800 / 900 - General Discussion => Topic started by: Archie750 on October 21, 2020, 11:49:58 AM

Title: Topbox unbalances my 900RP
Post by: Archie750 on October 21, 2020, 11:49:58 AM
Hi All,
Just wondered if anyone else has experienced problems with balance when the top box alone is fitted to the Tiger 900 Rally Pro? I didn't really notice a balance problem on my previous 800XCA with just the top box on, but I do with the 900RP. Embarrassingly I managed to drop the bike 45 minutes after picking it up from the dealer, causing £1000 of damage  :012: :232:. I was attempting to climb a kerb while almost parallel to it, and overbalanced. Note to all: the edge of the tank is very exposed to this kind of damage.
I was finding the bike difficult to manhandle at low speeds, and a couple of weeks later had to mount a kerb again to allow an ambulance through in a narrow road and nearly dropped it again! :114:. Now I've taken the top box and mounting plate off the bike it's a lot better, so much so that I took it off-road yesterday for the first time on a mixture of forest tracks, open gravel roads and wet, muddy green lanes, and it was great fun! From now on I'm only going to fit the top box when I have the panniers on, so that the overall center of gravity is lower. Can't fit 'em yet as I'm still waiting for the pannier rails, which are on a delayed back order with Triumph. Once I get the panniers and top box all on together I will report back.
Just wondered if it's only me? 
Title: Re: Topbox unbalances my 900RP
Post by: Colinhitch on October 21, 2020, 12:31:01 PM
Hello, Iíve done 9400 miles on my RP and no I havenít experienced the problems your having. When I go on Salisbury Plain I do take the top box off to minimise wear and tear, but not because of stability. When touring with all the panniers and a dry bag itís been fine. Heartily recommend the Triumph experience centre, great fun and you donít damage your bike!
Title: Re: Topbox unbalances my 900RP
Post by: Aussie Tiger on October 21, 2020, 12:50:09 PM
Itís difficult to see how the top box caused your accident. As you say you were almost parallel to the curb Iíd say this is more likely the cause. I donít have a top box but regularly have the large Triumph tail bag on the back and a smaller seat bag and even when fully loaded havenít noticed any instability even at low speed.
Title: Re: Topbox unbalances my 900RP
Post by: Stevie.P on October 21, 2020, 01:02:00 PM
*Originally Posted by Archie750 [+]
.. I was attempting to climb a kerb while almost parallel to it, and overbalanced.

I believe this was your issue, I have once done it myself when the only option was for me to go on the pavement and I embarrisingly dropped it in front of the blocking car driver, not enough angle relative to the kerb and instead of mounting the kerb the tyre runs along the kerb edge and unexpectedly throws you off balance and ...  :232:

I now always ensure that the bike and wheel is at least 45 - 90deg to the kerb before doing it.
Title: Re: Topbox unbalances my 900RP
Post by: Colinhitch on October 21, 2020, 01:20:07 PM
They are correct, the approved technique for crossing a log etc is to approach it at 90 deg, slightly squat and stand up to unload the front just before the obstacle. Any other angle and the rear tyre will slide along the obstacle.
Title: Re: Topbox unbalances my 900RP
Post by: awjdthumper on October 21, 2020, 02:19:14 PM
Having spent my youth riding push bikes, I'm always conscious of the dangers involved in trying to cross raised curbs however low at a shallow angle and tend to hop the front wheel over them even to this day. This carries over to riding motorbikes for me and therefore my instincts would never allow me to try to ride over a curb except at 90 degrees to it.
Title: Re: Topbox unbalances my 900RP
Post by: TIger Lad on October 21, 2020, 02:26:53 PM
I don't have the RP but I do have the GT pro complete with a Givi large top box (2 Crash Helmets) Have not experienced any stability problems what's so ever.
Title: Re: Topbox unbalances my 900RP
Post by: Jarse on October 21, 2020, 03:01:06 PM
Iíve had no issue with my 52l Givi box on my Rally Pro.

Mounting a cord while parallel on the other hand is far from advisable.
Title: Re: Topbox unbalances my 900RP
Post by: Archie750 on October 23, 2020, 12:19:48 PM
Thanks for all your posts; seems like Iím guilty as charged, and should not have attempted to climb the damn kerb at such an acute angle in the first place! :034:
I do still have some reservations about the top box but will give it another go. I very rarely carry pillions but the feeling of instability I get is similar to that, but obviously to a lesser degree.
Thanks to
Code: [Select]
Colinhitch for his comments; I did try to get on the Triumph off-road course this year but Covid stopped that, so now Iím booked on the level 1 in June next year, as well as the ABR Festival later the same month, so really looking forward to both of those!
Cheers
Nick
Title: Re: Topbox unbalances my 900RP
Post by: Colinhitch on October 23, 2020, 12:41:33 PM
Iím sure youíll get a lot from the course, I liked them enough to book two of their gravel tours next year. The ABR is a good weekend, the off road circuit is even longer this time so plenty of practice!
Title: Re: Topbox unbalances my 900RP
Post by: Dazcoates on October 23, 2020, 01:56:17 PM
The only way I could imagine a bike being unbalanced by the use of a top box would be to have it full of bricks.
No bike I've ever owned has felt any different when fitted with a top box.
Doesnt feal much different when I've got the missus sat on the back either.
Title: Re: Topbox unbalances my 900RP
Post by: Archie750 on October 23, 2020, 03:27:37 PM
*Originally Posted by Dazcoates [+]
The only way I could imagine a bike being unbalanced by the use of a top box would be to have it full of bricks.
No bike I've ever owned has felt any different when fitted with a top box.
Doesnt feal much different when I've got the missus sat on the back either.
Well Dazcoates, seeing has how most top-boxes (mine included) have a weight limit of 5Kg, filling it up with bricks might be a bit extreme  :492:
Actually, I just checked and my Triumph Expedition top-box and mount together weigh 8.5Kg, so in total fully loaded that's 13.5Kg (30lbs) - equivalent to about 6 average house bricks  :015:.
Title: Re: Topbox unbalances my 900RP
Post by: Dazcoates on October 23, 2020, 03:49:01 PM
My point exactly,  I could put that weight on after a good meal.
Title: Re: Topbox unbalances my 900RP
Post by: Sixer58 on October 24, 2020, 08:25:29 AM
I have my top box on my Rally Pro on all the time, and again am happy to report no balance problems. Dont even notice its on to be honest when riding. Stay safe!!
Title: Re: Topbox unbalances my 900RP
Post by: awjdthumper on October 24, 2020, 08:42:18 AM
It's hard to see how the weight of a top box could cause a balance problem but it could cause a centre of pressure problem in side wind conditions. I'd previously ridden a BMW F650GS which was very sensitive to cross winds, even without the top box fitted - in fact, it wasn't nice to ride in a cross wind. In contrast, my 800 XCA is hardly affected by side wind although I've never tried it with a top box fitted. I believe the 900 is higher off the ground and so this might make it less tolerant to side winds with a top box than the 800 :084:
Title: Re: Topbox unbalances my 900RP
Post by: AvgBear on October 24, 2020, 05:03:04 PM
In light of the recent trends in motorcycle engineering toward mass centralization, locating weight quite high and rearward of the rear axle seems a bit contemptuous?
In fact, motorcycle riding guides advise against such -- recommending locating weight low and toward the center of the bike.
Top boxes & weight just might be asking for trouble..?  :187:
Title: Re: Topbox unbalances my 900RP
Post by: Dazcoates on October 24, 2020, 08:33:05 PM
If that's the case I wonder how many accidents or incidents could actually be attributed to the addition of a top box,  correctly mounted and  loaded on to a motorcycle with the built in capacity to have one fitted direct from the manufacturer .
Admittedly, some bikes might not be suited to having luggage fitted but I dont think that will be the case with any tiger.

(https://photos-cdn.tiger800.co.uk/Screenshot_20201024-203123_WhatsApp.jpg)
This obviously might be a bit dodgy .
Title: Re: Topbox unbalances my 900RP
Post by: Aussie Tiger on October 24, 2020, 08:36:49 PM
How is that worse than carrying a passenger?
Title: Re: Topbox unbalances my 900RP
Post by: Jonjak on October 25, 2020, 09:35:09 AM
OK, so we have all established that a top box loaded correctly will not unbalance a bike.
But are we all missing the point. What we should be concentrating on, is the fact that a minor drop of our pride and joy is resulting in so much damage.
How can this be avoided? There are conflicting stories with crash bars, and at £500 a set, the expense is quite high. Does anyone know if there is some kind of tank pad, perhaps in carbon. I know this option exists for track bikes. If not available, we could possibly approach a manufacturer for a group by? If it is deemed suitable. What do you guys think.
Title: Re: Topbox unbalances my 900RP
Post by: tauzero on October 25, 2020, 02:48:11 PM
Why not buy crash bars for £150 a set instead? For £500 a set, I'd expect them to be gold-plated and delivered by unicorn.
Title: Re: Topbox unbalances my 900RP
Post by: AvgBear on October 25, 2020, 03:36:57 PM
*Originally Posted by Aussie Tiger [+]
How is that worse than carrying a passenger?
A passenger, when acting as a co-rider, may actually offer some enhancement to rider control.
Still, in the Owner's Handbook, Triumph stipulate (Accessories and Loading) - in addition to the many warnings of potential hazards of carrying passengers - some specific warnings about accessory payloads.
"The presence of accessories and/or payload will cause changes in the stability and handling of the motorcycle."
"Failure to allow for changes in motorcycle stability may lead to loss of control or an accident."
Carrying of objects in excess of 5 kg in weight, that...extend beyond the rear...of the motorcycle may lead to loss of motorcycle control...
 
Title: Re: Topbox unbalances my 900RP
Post by: Jonjak on October 25, 2020, 04:35:50 PM
Iíve been looking for a set for my gt pro and I have to say I have not seen them that cheap. Possibly either a top or bottom but not a set. Either way, what Iím trying to say is that if you purchase crash bars, then you would expect them to protect your tank with a simple drop.