Triumph Tiger 800 Forum

Tiger 800 / 900 - Main Discussion Section => Tiger 800 / 900 - General Discussion => Topic started by: jlarysz on October 23, 2020, 08:19:31 PM

Title: 2016 Tiger 800 Will Not Fire
Post by: jlarysz on October 23, 2020, 08:19:31 PM
My 2016 Tiger 800XR cranks easily, but there no sign of ignition; it drove into my garage 2 weeks ago just fine, and now it doesn't want to leave. Posts on the forum tell me to clean the stepper motor.  Where is this stepper motor, and how much bike do I have to dismantle to find it? Can someone who has done this give some instructions?

Other posts tell me to open the throttle a little while trying to start. When I do that the bike won't crank at all.
Title: Re: 2016 Tiger 800 Will Not Fire
Post by: Stevie.P on October 23, 2020, 08:49:05 PM
The stepper motor issue is normally a 'gen 1' bike issue, cable throttle setup ... pre-2015. The 'gen 2 &3' bikes post 2015 are fly-by-wire throttle and not an exposed stepper motor as 'gen 1' and not aware of owners having issues with later bikes.

So the bike will crank with shut throttle but won't crank if you open the throttle a little .... strange, sounds to me like a possible sensor fault?

Have you checked for fault codes? If you haven't a lead and Tigertool setup you could try this:

https://www.tiger800.co.uk/index.php/topic,14967.0.html
Title: Re: 2016 Tiger 800 Will Not Fire
Post by: chuckxc on October 23, 2020, 10:00:34 PM
Basics first...
1) spark at the spark plugs?
2) fuel in the piston, and no water in the fuel?

keep your troubleshooting simple first.
Title: Re: 2016 Tiger 800 Will Not Fire
Post by: jlarysz on October 24, 2020, 02:08:37 AM
I'll check for error codes tomorrow. As for a spark, the plugs seem to be buried deep in the bike; I'll have to start dismantling things to get down to them. Is there a quick way to do this?
Title: Re: 2016 Tiger 800 Will Not Fire
Post by: Stevie.P on October 24, 2020, 11:17:09 AM
If my bike I would do some easy basics first before getting involved in stripping the bike down for spark plugs etc.

As previous, check if any codes stored.

Battery:
Do you have a multimeter .... check battery voltage and leads are secure (my 2015 needed a new battery almost a year ago)
... disconnect it, so like a full reboot of the electronickery stuff
... and fully charge it before reconnecting
... while battery disconnected remove and check general state of the starter solenoid located below the battery and the 30A fuse fitted in it
... refit & reconnect battery and then check again for the starting fault.
Title: Re: 2016 Tiger 800 Will Not Fire
Post by: healdem on October 24, 2020, 02:29:31 PM
 Other basics
Isolation switch on handlebar
Headlight fuse its a gift from elfnsafety that the headlights must be working to start the bike
Title: Re: 2016 Tiger 800 Will Not Fire
Post by: Paulhere on October 24, 2020, 03:38:34 PM
Can you hear the pump priming when you switch on ignition?

Try start with side stand up.
Title: Re: 2016 Tiger 800 Will Not Fire
Post by: jocktiger on October 24, 2020, 03:41:34 PM
Hi all the not starting thing been a nightmare for me for past 2 weeks on my 18 plat 800 xcx, finally sorted it on my bike, sprayed the throttle, cruise control and mostly the kill switch and the push start with wd40, in all the orifices i could find on the right, dried off excess and left for 24hrs, and bobs your uncle been fine since, so dont know if when I washed the bike last time got that area to wet or its just as I live in the wettest place on the plant, west Scotland rains here all year and when it not wet its damp/moist air. I also dont use the kill switch at all to scared to after reading on here, so use the key each time.
I have bought AFC50 now and going to spray the full electric with it when I get a dry day, hope this helps some of you, may work in the hot countries as well, Happy biking.
Title: Re: 2016 Tiger 800 Will Not Fire
Post by: jlarysz on October 24, 2020, 05:51:24 PM
I've checked for error codes - there are none. The head light comes on with the ignition and there's whine from the fuel pump. I thought the fuel gauge might be mis-reading so I filled up with fresh hi-test and tried again this morning. There was a faint sign of life - the bike fires weakly but chokes off immediately (it coughs when the starter motor spins), so I suspect a fuel problem. Has anyone had choke problems with this bike? Is there an error code for a failing choke?

I apologize for the slow communication - I live in NY, several times zones away from most of you.
Title: Re: 2016 Tiger 800 Will Not Fire
Post by: Paulhere on October 24, 2020, 06:46:14 PM
Have you tried it with sidestand up? I suggested this from a past experience but it may not be that.

Did the bike get a good washing before it was stored?
Title: Re: 2016 Tiger 800 Will Not Fire
Post by: jlarysz on October 24, 2020, 07:16:02 PM
Yes I did. I'm increasingly confident that it's a fuel or choke problem, or the plugs are just plain flooded. I had a weak cough from the bike this morning and then I left it for a couple of hours. I tried again and made the engine spin, though it stopped short of actually starting. The bike is trying. If it wasn't an all day job I'd pull the tank now and look at the plugs. However, it is an all day job, so I'll let the plugs dry out and try again this evening.
Title: Re: 2016 Tiger 800 Will Not Fire
Post by: Paulhere on October 24, 2020, 07:18:48 PM
I'm thinking it's sumert & nowt.

Make sure that battery is fully charged before cranking away at it.

Good luck with it.
Title: Re: 2016 Tiger 800 Will Not Fire
Post by: Rtwo on October 24, 2020, 07:28:14 PM
It's worth having a good look at the stepper motor connector, take it off, clean it etc.
Title: Re: 2016 Tiger 800 Will Not Fire
Post by: Stevie.P on October 24, 2020, 07:40:40 PM
*Originally Posted by jlarysz [+]
I tried again and made the engine spin, though it stopped short of actually starting.

Similar to what Paulhere said (and my previous), if your battery isn't in good condition and fully charged, especially as you've been spinning the bike over, you will be on a losing battle.
Title: Re: 2016 Tiger 800 Will Not Fire
Post by: jlarysz on October 24, 2020, 10:26:23 PM
The battery is in fine shape; I keep it on a trickle charger when it's in dock. It seems that there is no stepper motor on my bike - it's a 2016 and it's supposed to be "fly-by-wire".
Title: Re: 2016 Tiger 800 Will Not Fire
Post by: Terry Ryan on October 24, 2020, 10:38:56 PM
My 2015 XRX does the same if I wash it & don't bring it up to full temp afterwards & leave it for a week or more, It will eventually start with full throttle & much winding, sometimes have to put jumper leads on, I'm blaming a sensor (possibly o2 sensor in the exhaust getting wet), there are never any DTCs coming up
Title: Re: 2016 Tiger 800 Will Not Fire
Post by: Stevie.P on October 24, 2020, 11:52:26 PM
*Originally Posted by jlarysz [+]
It seems that there is no stepper motor on my bike - it's a 2016 and it's supposed to be "fly-by-wire".

There is, but built in:

Gen 1 it was external and subject to issues with dirt and well documented here on forum (about regular cleaning preferably with dry film lube) - item 5 - 153
https://www.worldoftriumph.com/collections/100057498-0-2?type=tiger-800-upto-vin-674841

Gen 2 & 3 it is integral in the throttle bodies and throttle control so theoretically maintenance free- item 1 the round lump on the front (no reports of issues I recall) - 1076  :005:
https://www.worldoftriumph.com/collections/100069450-0-2?type=tiger-800-xr-from-vin-674842-to-855531
Title: Re: 2016 Tiger 800 Will Not Fire
Post by: grizzlybear on October 25, 2020, 10:26:15 AM
Jock tiger good luck with a dry day :492:
Title: Re: 2016 Tiger 800 Will Not Fire
Post by: Paulhere on October 25, 2020, 10:42:23 AM
*Originally Posted by grizzlybear [+]
Jock tiger good luck with a dry day :492:

 :008: Yes, stay lucky, I didn't get many up there in Sept. got a lucky day for the top bit.

(https://photos-cdn.tiger800.co.uk/IMG_20200914_143824.jpg)
Title: Re: 2016 Tiger 800 Will Not Fire
Post by: Paulhere on October 25, 2020, 11:02:18 AM
*Originally Posted by jlarysz [+]
The battery is in fine shape; I keep it on a trickle charger when it's in dock. It seems that there is no stepper motor on my bike - it's a 2016 and it's supposed to be "fly-by-wire".

Back on topic, Any luck?
Title: Re: 2016 Tiger 800 Will Not Fire
Post by: jlarysz on October 25, 2020, 03:12:01 PM
The bike is trying hard. This morning, after several pulls with the throttle partly open the bike suddenly rev'd up - and immediately died. The battery is now getting low so I'm leaving it to charge for a while.
Title: Re: 2016 Tiger 800 Will Not Fire
Post by: jlarysz on October 25, 2020, 04:53:58 PM
My bike is running sweetly again! I finally managed to get it running this morning. It felt lumpy and unstable for a while, but after it had run up to warm a couple of times the idle smoothed out and it feels "normal" now.

The problem is a mystery, but it feels like a fuel problem to me. It could be bad fuel, watery fuel or an air lock.

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions. They kept me going!
Title: Re: 2016 Tiger 800 Will Not Fire
Post by: Paulhere on October 25, 2020, 05:42:11 PM
That's great news. I recall a similar issue with my ST955 many years ago after a 3k Euro tour, it came home in a disgusting state, needing 3 washes to get it looking good again. My mistake, I put it away without running it long enough to totally dry it out. Had a similar job to you, getting it to run again next time out.
Title: Re: 2016 Tiger 800 Will Not Fire
Post by: chuckxc on October 25, 2020, 08:07:19 PM
When you wrote that the bike sat for 2 weeks, then didn't start, my first thought was water in the fuel settling to the bottom and drawn into the fuel pump. It can take plenty of turning over to get it through the system.
Usually comes from gas stations with poor quality undeground tanks.(happened to me) Condensation in a near-empty tank can also be a cause.
It won't do any harm to occasionally add some methylated spirit or commercial fuel treatment to a fresh tank to mix the water and get it through.
Title: Re: 2016 Tiger 800 Will Not Fire
Post by: jlarysz on October 25, 2020, 11:55:00 PM
Thanks for the advice - it's a very valid point. In the last 2 weeks the weather has turned from hot summer to almost snowing and back again a couple of times - it could easily be condensation somewhere in the system. However, the tank was 3/8 full - lots of space above the fuel level, but the fuel lines were full of petrol - how would condensation get into these lines until the bike had run for a while and drawn watery fuel from the tank? There could have been an air lock, a problem in itself, but how much condensation could there be in an air lock in a gas line?
Title: Re: 2016 Tiger 800 Will Not Fire
Post by: chuckxc on October 26, 2020, 07:03:08 AM
Water is heavier than fuel and over time will sink to the lowest point. The first available liquid out of the pump after the 2 weeks will be any residual water. Agree, you would think that at least the fuel in the line from the tank to the injector would be good.
Having lived in Pennsylvania for 35 years I recall how a MC can sit idle during long periods in the winter months. (black ice is not your friend)
That's when it's important to keep a full tank and even use a winter additive in the fuel.
Australia-not such a problem!