Triumph Tiger 800 Forum

Tiger 800 / 900 - Main Discussion Section => General Maintenance and Servicing => Topic started by: ped on November 29, 2020, 09:56:02 AM

Title: chain oilers
Post by: ped on November 29, 2020, 09:56:02 AM
what's the best chain oilers out there that actually work how they are supposed to, being looking at a
cobrra but seen some reviews   that say they leaked oil when the bike was stationary. :148:
Title: Re: chain oilers
Post by: Snownorge on November 29, 2020, 10:09:12 AM
Had Scottoiler on 4 different bikes,no problems,they have good tech\help  As well if needed for spares and advice,
Title: Re: chain oilers
Post by: Mav on November 29, 2020, 10:14:26 AM
The same question has just been asked.

https://www.tiger800.co.uk/index.php/topic,28911.0.html

I have the cobrra, it only drips out for 2 minuets after turning the top a quarter of a turn. Non has never leaked out on my garage floor. The Chinese copy's my be different!
Title: Re: chain oilers
Post by: tauzero on November 29, 2020, 12:41:22 PM
Mine came with a Scottoiler eSystem on it. I wouldn't have paid for one but think it's a very good product. I've got a standard Scottoiler waiting for me to fit to the T120.
Title: Re: chain oilers
Post by: Rgh999 on November 29, 2020, 01:42:19 PM
Tutoro for me every time. Brilliant after sales and spare replacement parts are readily available. Simple installation and not complicated.
Title: Re: chain oilers
Post by: barry.t100sr on November 29, 2020, 02:56:14 PM

I've used Scottoilers (Two), Lubeman and Tuturo.

I prefer the Tuturo. Works well and needs no vaccuum or electrical connections.
Title: Re: chain oilers
Post by: Djairouks on November 29, 2020, 04:48:54 PM
The Cobrra is fine, the tricky thing is to cut the hose exactly at 90° and flat so it fits and seals
on the reservoir, I redid the cut once (razor blade) and it never leaked since !

The amount of oil needed between road conditions is so different, that I prefer the Cobrra as
you can yourself give any numbers of turns.
I usually do my daily 50km commute back home and if it rains I'll give some turns 10min before
arriving home and my chain will have the proper oil film, so it does not rust and if it does not rain
well I don't need to as much.

Also after almost a year of use and 12'000km, I've used maybe 2dl of oil at most, with the cost
of 80W90 my lubrication this year cost me 12x less than chain cans, the Cobrra is allready repaid !
Title: Re: chain oilers
Post by: Johnjo on November 29, 2020, 05:58:30 PM

I like the cobrra. Had one fitted on my last 2 bikes. Never had a leak. As Dj says fit it correctly, no worries.

Had scottoilers on previous bikes. But never really rated them. Too fiddly to get the flow rate right. They say thats not a problem with the electrical version, but they're way too expensive for an oiler for me.
Title: Re: chain oilers
Post by: Paulhere on November 29, 2020, 08:11:25 PM
I've had Scottoilers on all modern bikes for the past 25 years, currently on 3 bikes, the 800 has the eSystem, it's excellent, fit & forget, just remember to top it up every 1,000miles. Set at one drip/45 secs.
Title: Re: chain oilers
Post by: Tallpaul on November 29, 2020, 08:55:51 PM
I couldn't get on with the E oiler, fiddly and too many settings, I much prefer the old vacuum manual version now fitted to my XR.
Title: Re: chain oilers
Post by: Djairouks on November 29, 2020, 09:04:33 PM
In my opinion scottoilers are a waste of oil, if like Paul says filling every 1000 miles, I filled my Cobrra
about 3 times in 12'000Km, which is great when travelling no need to haul tons of oil.
Title: Re: chain oilers
Post by: Paulhere on November 30, 2020, 08:25:36 AM
*Originally Posted by Tallpaul [+]
I couldn't get on with the E oiler, fiddly and too many settings, I much prefer the old vacuum manual version now fitted to my XR.

Ayup m8, Ah yes, need reset level in 'puter at every fill. Ok up to now, 4 years. I like consistency, 60 sec boost, a fill lasts easy 1k & more.

The vac systems are easy, I have them on my Sport & traillie, latter has touring ressie, that lasts all year.

Dealer said Triumph told them not to fit vac systems to fbw models.
Title: Re: chain oilers
Post by: Newhorizons on December 20, 2020, 03:20:01 AM
I am running Cobrra also.

What I find is that it works consistently irrespective of what oil or blend I am using.
In Aust we can get really hot conditions and my hot weather blend at the moment is some gear oil mixed with chainsaw bar oil.

The best blend I have had was Shell MC Chain oil in a plastic bottle (was bought forever ago but never used when aerosols became popular) mixed with chain saw bar oil. That is really nice and sticky and doesn't melt, but have run out of the old Shell bottle.

So I am typically giving it a twist 5 to 10 mins before I stop either for fuel or the end of the day. Unfortunately whilst the end of the feed line doesn't drip I have/can have a build up inside near the counter shaft sprocket.... and that does drip. But maybe I have been giving it too much ??

However one of the strategies behind the blend was occasionally going off road on a long trip I can actually wash the chain down a bit with a garden hose as the chain bar oil is biodegradable and then re oil when dry... down the road a bit ... yeah when its really wet the chain gets dry but we will all suffer from that on all systems ... but I do have some control on how much lube and when.

I arrived at this strategy having done a really long 3 week trip and sand and dirt stuck to the sticky aerosol lube like nothing else. Short of going to a car wash and doing the engine clean on the chain that sand was pretty much embedded for the whole trip. Where as with the current system, a hose wash or even better a $2.00 degreaser can will pretty much clean the chain in 5 mins, ride dry and clean and ready for re oil down the highway.

I pretty much look for a thin film on the side of the rear sprocket in conjunction with a bit of color on the rollers.

How do others assess the right amount of lube? Just around the streets I wouldn't lube from one week to the next, but on the highway its way different. 

Title: Re: chain oilers
Post by: mcinlb on December 20, 2020, 08:53:36 AM
Another Cobra user , I just use gear oil as per manufacturers spec. A quarter turn every 200/300 mls depending on weather, sometimes there are a few spots on the number plate but not often :002:
Title: Re: chain oilers
Post by: Paulhere on December 20, 2020, 11:53:17 AM
The amount of oil used depends on setting relative to conditions, not on the type of oiler.
Set them low & they might lube the chain somewhat, but not wash off the crud. Save oil = shorten life of chain kit. :087:
Title: Re: chain oilers
Post by: dragon88 on December 24, 2020, 12:23:41 AM
Another plus for Cobra. Looked at the Scotts and Turtoros etc, each to their own but I like the simplicity and efficiency of the Cobra. Less to go wrong.
Title: Re: chain oilers
Post by: KildareMan on December 24, 2020, 10:23:39 AM
*Originally Posted by dragon88 [+]
Another plus for Cobra. Looked at the Scotts and Turtoros etc, each to their own but I like the simplicity and efficiency of the Cobra. Less to go wrong.

That and the positive displacement of oil when you turn the mechanism. The others are just too dependant on external factors - temperature mainly.
Title: Re: chain oilers
Post by: Paulhere on December 24, 2020, 10:29:37 AM
*Originally Posted by KildareMan [+]
That and the positive displacement of oil when you turn the mechanism. The others are just too dependant on external factors - temperature mainly.

Wouldn't it need to be controlled by an electric pump to not be dependent on temperature.
Title: Re: chain oilers
Post by: KildareMan on December 24, 2020, 12:43:36 PM
*Originally Posted by Paulhere [+]
Wouldn't it need to be controlled by an electric pump to not be dependent on temperature.

Turning the top forces oil out the bottom.  It's a screw down mechanism. To refill you have to fill and rotate body the other way to expand the reservoir.
Title: Re: chain oilers
Post by: Paulhere on December 24, 2020, 01:07:51 PM
*Originally Posted by KildareMan [+]
Turning the top forces oil out the bottom.  It's a screw down mechanism. To refill you have to fill and rotate body the other way to expand the reservoir.

I know how it works, it'll still drip slower for cold oil than hot.
Title: Re: chain oilers
Post by: Alberto_B on December 24, 2020, 02:19:30 PM
*Originally Posted by Paulhere [+]
it'll still drip slower for cold oil than hot.
If I've understood correctly it'll drip for a short while after the top has been turned to pressurise the flow, until the pressure balances, then stops until the next time you turn.

I would have thought that the impact of ambient or fluid temperature on the flow would have been minimal.

I've just bought one so I'll be finding out in due course  :001:
Title: Re: chain oilers
Post by: KildareMan on December 24, 2020, 02:23:48 PM
*Originally Posted by Alberto_B [+]
If I've understood correctly it'll drip for a short while after the top has been turned to pressurise the flow, until the pressure balances, then stops until the next time you turn.

I would have thought that the impact of ambient or fluid temperature on the flow would have been minimal.

I've just bought one so I'll be finding out in due course  :001:

Alberto you are correct.
Title: Re: chain oilers
Post by: Alberto_B on December 24, 2020, 02:31:38 PM
Doesn't happen often  :001:
Title: Re: chain oilers
Post by: Paulhere on December 24, 2020, 02:35:12 PM
*Originally Posted by KildareMan [+]
Alberto you are correct.

So the Cobra drips at same pace no matter what the temp, wouldn't have thought so, that's good.

How long does it drip for, or how long 'til you need to turn the top again?
Title: Re: chain oilers
Post by: Djairouks on December 24, 2020, 02:49:44 PM
The idea is to get thick oil and turn about 3/4 to coat the chain, then it's not a matter of how often you need to return or how long it drips.
The oil will cost a chain in about 5 minutes in my experience, then unless you're under heavy rain, there's enough oil for 400km at least.
Title: Re: chain oilers
Post by: Paulhere on December 24, 2020, 02:59:06 PM
Ok so the Cobra doesn't wash the crud off the chain, it just lubes it for 5 mins.
Title: Re: chain oilers
Post by: Djairouks on December 24, 2020, 03:03:16 PM
Only degreaser washes a chain, I don't think a scottoiler is any better, that's a non argument in my opinion, I'll wash the chain when I want to.
But until all the lube is gone, you can let your chain get "clean" if you want to  :027: before giving a turn.

I have no more crud as when I was using spray can grease on my chain, so it's pretty good.
Title: Re: chain oilers
Post by: Paulhere on December 24, 2020, 03:36:00 PM
*Originally Posted by Djairouks [+]
Only degreaser washes a chain, I don't think a scottoiler is any better, that's a non argument in my opinion,

You are wrong.
Title: Re: chain oilers
Post by: Djairouks on December 24, 2020, 03:45:35 PM
Friends have scottoilers, I see absolutely no difference on cleanliness of the chain or dirtiness, however you want to look at it.

So whatever you want to think (that I'm wrong), I can only give my irl experience not an opinion... Anyway plenty other users here to give their own experience, so don't take my word for it.

Maybe my oil is magic  :492:
Title: Re: chain oilers
Post by: Londonglide on December 24, 2020, 05:22:42 PM
Having had a chain break on the Xc during a tour of Ireland, luckily at very low speed, I have become a bit paranoid about chains/chain maintenance.
As far as I understand it, with most modern O-ring chains the actual working part of the links are factory lubed, and effectively sealed by the O-ring ( or X-ring, whatever) from the outside world.
The take away for me is make sure the chain is good quality, properly adjusted on good sprockets, and up to the job.. fyi my bike came from a dealer with a splint link chain which should only be used on smaller, low power bikes...
The idea is that by keeping the chain cleaned and rust-free you will help to get maximum life with minimal problems.
I think the idea is to keep the O-rings flexible, and the working surfaces slippery, and unlike bikes from years ago, more oil only equals more mess/muck collection and wear.
I'm not a mile muncher, so I am happy with weekly cleaning/maintenance, but would have an oiler if I was to do more touring.
I would imagine that 90% of whatever you put on the chain gets flung off, and its really about which you prefer as a brand, as all they are doing is keeping the visible parts protected.

Just my thoughts....
Title: Re: chain oilers
Post by: tauzero on December 26, 2020, 01:29:14 AM
There are two rubbing surfaces - the pin on the outer plates goes through the bush on the inner plates, and that friction interface is permanently lubricated by the grease sealed in by the O/Z/W/X rings. The roller rotates around the bush and the outer surface of the roller is the surface that the sprocket goes onto, and the roller/bush interface is lubricated by chain lube.
Title: Re: chain oilers
Post by: AvgBear on December 26, 2020, 05:42:54 AM
*Originally Posted by tauzero [+]
The roller rotates around the bush and the outer surface of the roller is the surface that the sprocket goes onto, and the roller/bush interface is lubricated by chain lube.
Aren't both inner & outer surfaces of the bush permanently lubricated by the grease sealed-in upon chain assembly? I.E. the outer surface of the pin, the inner surface of the bush, the outer surface of the bush, and the inner surface of the roller -- are the greased & sealed interfaces (rubbing surfaces).
The chains rollers (outer surfaces) are, then, (ideally) not rubbing surfaces and external lube may, when applied, offer a protective film and a pressure cushion to the roller sprocket interface.

Title: Re: chain oilers
Post by: tauzero on December 26, 2020, 12:11:29 PM
*Originally Posted by AvgBear [+]
Aren't both inner & outer surfaces of the bush permanently lubricated by the grease sealed-in upon chain assembly? I.E. the outer surface of the pin, the inner surface of the bush, the outer surface of the bush, and the inner surface of the roller -- are the greased & sealed interfaces (rubbing surfaces).
The chains rollers (outer surfaces) are, then, (ideally) not rubbing surfaces and external lube may, when applied, offer a protective film and a pressure cushion to the roller sprocket interface.

No, the seal is in the wrong place to seal the roller ends. Hopefully this shows what I mean:

(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ssl:upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0e/O-ring_and_X-ring_type_chains.png)
Title: Re: chain oilers
Post by: Paulhere on December 26, 2020, 01:31:08 PM
And those O/X seals need good lubrication with the side plates constantly rubbing on both sides of them, ideally a little & often to wash away the crud. As any experienced rider would/should know.
Title: Re: chain oilers
Post by: AvgBear on December 26, 2020, 05:04:33 PM
*Originally Posted by tauzero [+]
No,...Hopefully this shows what I mean:
OK, thanks -- yes it does, great illustration.
Title: Re: chain oilers
Post by: AvgBear on December 28, 2020, 04:19:44 AM
*Originally Posted by tauzero [+]
The roller rotates around the bush..., and the roller/bush interface is lubricated by chain lube.
Well, yes & no. Yes b/c the bush/roller interface will be lubed by the grease applied when first manufactured -- but no b/c once that grease leaves through the non-sealed gap between the roller and the inner plates there won't be any way to effectively get grease back in there.
Yes, chain lube can be applied to the outside -- but getting some between the roller and the bush may be doubtful-to-impossible.  :187:
(especially with centrifugal force working against such a process...)
Title: Re: chain oilers
Post by: Paulhere on December 28, 2020, 03:53:17 PM
*Originally Posted by AvgBear [+]
Well, yes & no. Yes b/c the bush/roller interface will be lubed by the grease applied when first manufactured -- but no b/c once that grease leaves through the non-sealed gap between the roller and the inner plates there won't be any way to effectively get grease back in there.
Yes, chain lube can be applied to the outside -- but getting some between the roller and the bush may be doubtful-to-impossible.  :187:
(especially with centrifugal force working against such a process...)

Exactly :047: spot on that man. 'Tis why the oiler nozzle should be 20 to the hour on the sprocket, so centrifugal force gets the oil into all the chain components.
Title: Re: chain oilers
Post by: AvgBear on December 28, 2020, 05:30:11 PM
*Originally Posted by Paulhere [+]
'Tis why the oiler nozzle should be 20 to the hour on the sprocket, so centrifugal force gets the oil into all the chain components.
If workig as you describe, would it not be better without the O/Z/W/X rings (in the way) obstructing the process..?   :187:
Title: Re: chain oilers
Post by: Paulhere on December 28, 2020, 05:48:19 PM
*Originally Posted by AvgBear [+]
If workig as you describe, would it not be better without the O/Z/W/X rings (in the way) obstructing the process..?   :187:

Don't be silly, there'd be nothing to keep the crud out.  :087:
Title: Re: chain oilers
Post by: T-Rever on December 28, 2020, 06:14:47 PM
My experience for what it is worth.
2012 Tiger Roadie. 18,600miles from new. I have been riding 65 years (yes I am 81), Tutoro oiler fitted,any  multigrade engine oil goes in during warmer weather, you have to thin it when the temperature falls. It does not like the winter, neither do I. I never clean my chain,I find that the crud flings off with the surplus oil. 25000 to 30000 can be had from an overlubed chain.
Title: Re: chain oilers
Post by: ped on December 29, 2020, 11:48:22 AM
why does the cobra chain oiler only lube one side of the plates  when both sides need lubing to stop friction and wear

just asking for a Friend
Title: Re: chain oilers
Post by: ItchyOxter on December 29, 2020, 12:00:56 PM
My scottoiler does the same! The theory is that the actions of the chain and sprockets when in motion will spread the oil around the whole chain (which it does if the flow is sufficient).
Title: Re: chain oilers
Post by: KildareMan on December 29, 2020, 12:19:10 PM
*Originally Posted by ped [+]
why does the cobra chain oiler only lube one side of the plates  when both sides need lubing to stop friction and wear

just asking for a Friend

Basically the oil spreads with centrifugal force - better if you have the spout directed at the bottom run of the chain though.
Title: Re: chain oilers
Post by: Djairouks on December 29, 2020, 12:23:35 PM
As the tubing size is the same as some pneumatic lines, with the Cobrra, you could at the end insert a Y pneumatic connector and put 2 tubes right up above side plates.

I will try this after winter !
Title: Re: chain oilers
Post by: Johnjo on December 29, 2020, 12:38:19 PM
I think scottoier sell a dual dispenser. They sell all there parts as separates from their website. You could rig up one of those above the chain run if desired. Personally don't see the need. Single dispenser oils the complete chain as previously stated.

I've used one of scottoils mounting arms on my cobrra. Holds the supply line better than the one cobrra supply.
Title: Re: chain oilers
Post by: Djairouks on December 29, 2020, 12:51:27 PM
*Originally Posted by Johnjo [+]
I think scottoier sell a dual dispenser. They sell all there parts as separates from their website. You could rig up one of those above the chain run if desired. Personally don't see the need. Single dispenser oils the complete chain as previously stated.

I've used one of scottoils mounting arms on my cobrra. Holds the supply line better than the one cobrra supply.

Not certain the scottoiler tubing is exact same size, the pneumatic stuff grab the tubing on the outside,
it's not something that plugs inside the tubes, so less flow restriction as well for pretty much the same
price, that's why it might be a good option.

I think I'd like to actually have another oil line on the output sprocket, but sure it's not needed.
Title: Re: chain oilers
Post by: Nick_2112 on December 29, 2020, 02:19:09 PM
*Originally Posted by T-Rever [+]
My experience for what it is worth.
2012 Tiger Roadie. 18,600miles from new. I have been riding 65 years (yes I am 81), Tutoro oiler fitted,any  multigrade engine oil goes in during warmer weather, you have to thin it when the temperature falls. It does not like the winter, neither do I. I never clean my chain,I find that the crud flings off with the surplus oil. 25000 to 30000 can be had from an overlubed chain.

I have a Tutoro, what do you thin the oil with please.
Title: Re: chain oilers
Post by: T-Rever on December 29, 2020, 06:36:51 PM
I thin the chain oil with a light bicycle oil like 3 in 1., and give the supply valve an extra half turn.
Title: Re: chain oilers
Post by: Nick_2112 on December 30, 2020, 12:56:40 PM
*Originally Posted by T-Rever [+]
I thin the chain oil with a light bicycle oil like 3 in 1., and give the supply valve an extra half turn.

Thanks, will try that.