Triumph Tiger 800 Forum

Tiger 800 - Main Discussion Section => ECU Re-Mapping and Tuning => Topic started by: Norumph on August 06, 2018, 10:00:03 PM

Title: Trying to use TigerTools but...
Post by: Norumph on August 06, 2018, 10:00:03 PM
Tiger Tools looks an excellent bit of software which I was hoping to use with a Windows 7 netbook to balance the throttle bodies as part of a 12,000 mile service. But I'm having connection problems (via USB 2.0).

Is this OBD connector known to be incompatible with TigerTools v2.5 or the Tiger 800 ECU?:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/113166383023#rpdCntId

After installing the CH340 USB drivers on the CD that came with it I was offered only COM3 in TigerTools (before installing the drivers no COM ports were shown), which I selected. It connects to the OBD Interface but stops at ECU Read Error! message. The ignition is on and the kill switch set to Run, which are the only possible reasons suggested for this error.

Is there anything else I can try, or is it just a case of sending the OBD lead back and randomly trying a different one? I need a USB one because the netbook doesn't have Bluetooth, as far as I know.

Somewhere on this forum, which I can't find any more, were examples of suitable connectors, but I couldn't find any of them for sale on eBay so I took a chance on this one because it seemed to have the correct spec.

Maybe you get what you pay for and I should just get a Dealertool?

Both my other bikes broke down at the weekend and I want the Tiger back on the road!
Title: Re: Trying to use TigerTools but...
Post by: chuckxc on August 07, 2018, 01:22:49 AM
Some forum users have had difficulty finding an OBD2/usb connector that works with TigerTool, it really is hit or miss. I've tried 3 different ones and different versions of Windows and drivers  and TigerTool still  fails to load.
Try TuneECU, which will do most of what you want, is bug free and will tolerate many OBD2 usb connectors. Dealertool is good if you don't mind spending a bit, but TuneECU is free.
Title: Re: Trying to use TigerTools but...
Post by: T800XC on August 07, 2018, 03:11:03 AM
*Originally Posted by Norumph
Tiger Tools looks an excellent bit of software which I was hoping to use with a Windows 7 netbook to balance the throttle bodies as part of a 12,000 mile service. But I'm having connection problems (via USB 2.0).

Is this OBD connector known to be incompatible with TigerTools v2.5 or the Tiger 800 ECU?:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/113166383023#rpdCntId
Not sure. I've bought many leads (some good, some bad) but I've not bought any from that seller.



*Originally Posted by Norumph
After installing the CH340 USB drivers on the CD that came with it I was offered only COM3 in TigerTools (before installing the drivers no COM ports were shown), which I selected. It connects to the OBD Interface but stops at ECU Read Error! message. The ignition is on and the kill switch set to Run, which are the only possible reasons suggested for this error.

Is there anything else I can try, or is it just a case of sending the OBD lead back and randomly trying a different one? I need a USB one because the netbook doesn't have Bluetooth, as far as I know.
It looks like your bike isn't replying to the request for ECU details. It appears to be failing at the first request. The interface is talking to the PC and configuring itself, but it's not getting (or not handling) a response from the bike's ECU. Take a look at the 'Info' tab in TigerTool after it fails to see if there's any information in there.



*Originally Posted by Norumph
Somewhere on this forum, which I can't find any more, were examples of suitable connectors, but I couldn't find any of them for sale on eBay so I took a chance on this one because it seemed to have the correct spec.
Unfortunately the quality of the leads available out there are far beyond my control. I did have some spare leads for sale a while back but have sold them all. I suppose I could look into buying a batch from someone I trust then sell them to members on here but it can start to get too expensive that way.

As noted elsewhere, the best unit I've seen of late is the bbfly-BF32301. These are often available on Amazon & Ebay for around 19. I think they're available cheaper than this on AliExpress.



*Originally Posted by Norumph
Maybe you get what you pay for and I should just get a Dealertool?
Hmm, only you can decide where you spend your money.  :001:



*Originally Posted by Norumph
Both my other bikes broke down at the weekend and I want the Tiger back on the road!
Do you have access to another Tiger, or any recent Triumph that you can try TigerTool on to see if it's an issue with your lead or bike cabling?

It might be worth checking the pins on the OBD connector on your ELM327 lead and on the bike. These have been known to work loose. Also, it may just be an issue with your interface lead not being compatible. There's much on here to read about that if you trawl the TigerTool V2 thread.

Title: Re: Trying to use TigerTools but...
Post by: Norumph on August 07, 2018, 02:48:04 PM
Thanks for the comprehensive reply. The only info. in the Tiger Tools Info tab is just a repeat of the ECU Read Error message.

I downloaded TuneECU and tried that, with the same result. Of course, I don't know if my OBD lead is compatible with it.

So I have various options:

I can try another OBD lead with Tiger Tools.
Or a different type of lead with TuneECU.
Or I can go for Dealer Tool, which I believe comes with a correct connector and should work. Not that there's anything wrong with Tiger Tools itself, but it seems I'm not the only one to have difficulties connecting it.

I think Dealer Tool is my preferred option. Having put the bike all back together it seems to run OK but the engine management light is now staying on, so I'll have to spend lots of money and time getting a dealer to diagnose it, or buy a decent kit to have a look myself. I just hope messing about with a dodgy OBD lead and its software hasn't caused any damage to the ECU. Is that a possibility?
Title: Re: Trying to use TigerTools but...
Post by: KildareMan on August 07, 2018, 04:52:37 PM
No it's not likely.  You buy any old cable rather than recommended options and then start blaming Tigertool for your problems.  Not cool.
Title: Re: Trying to use TigerTools but...
Post by: Silverstripes on August 07, 2018, 06:19:41 PM
I have a dealer tool OBD lead which I used on my Trophy. Just downloaded Tiger Tools and it worked perfectly. I will at some stage buy a new ECU key from dealer tool as it does so much more. a great diagnostic is you can check all your switches, cooling fans, lights which can be very helpfull.
Title: Re: Trying to use TigerTools but...
Post by: PapaTom on August 07, 2018, 06:23:35 PM
Hi norumph.
I live in Barnsley and bought a proven lead from T800XC.
If you want to pop through sometime with your netbook to check, you are welcome to.
Just let me know.
Tom
Title: Re: Trying to use TigerTools but...
Post by: Norumph on August 07, 2018, 09:48:51 PM
*Originally Posted by KildareMan [+]
No it's not likely.  You buy any old cable rather than recommended options and then start blaming Tigertool for your problems.  Not cool.

I don't know how you came to that conclusion KildareMan. If you read my posts more carefully you'd see that I said "Tiger Tools looks an excellent bit of software" and "Not that there's anything wrong with Tiger Tools itself". How is that blaming Tigertool?
Surely it's clear that I was questioning the compatability or quality of the OBD cable and the software supplied with it when I say "a dodgy OBD lead and its software".
And when I couldn't find any of the recommended options on eBay I didn't just buy "any old cable". I matched the specification to what was recommended.
I suppose you think chuckxc and the other forum members he mentions who had similar experiences are "not cool" as well? Whatever that means.

Anyway, enough of this nonsense.

Thanks for the offer PapaTom, that's a much more constructive response.  I might take you up on it if only to find out what this warning light's about.
Title: Re: Trying to use TigerTools but...
Post by: Norumph on August 08, 2018, 12:16:48 PM
If you're still watching this thread, PapaTom, you have a PM.
Title: Re: Trying to use TigerTools but...
Post by: Turbotom on August 08, 2018, 12:52:23 PM
I bought this one recently. Works fine with TigerTool 2.5.

https://www.ebay.nl/itm/142544839434?ul_noapp=true

Tom
Title: Re: Trying to use TigerTools but...
Post by: T800XC on August 08, 2018, 03:42:21 PM
*Originally Posted by Turbotom [+]
I bought this one recently. Works fine with TigerTool 2.5.

https://www.ebay.nl/itm/142544839434?ul_noapp=true

Tom
That's good to know as it was my most recommended lead for some time until it became hard to find.
Title: Re: Trying to use TigerTools but...
Post by: Norumph on August 08, 2018, 08:01:48 PM
Thanks for the tip. My netbook is Windows 7 and old laptop is XP, and the headline description implies it's for Win 8.1 and 10. But reading down, it does seem to support Win 7 and XP. Think I'll give it a go!
Title: Re: Trying to use TigerTools but...
Post by: T800XC on August 08, 2018, 11:58:05 PM
Just for reference for anyone having problems finding a working ELM327 OBD2 lead for use with TigerTool, here's some history and hopefully clarity for a few issues...

TigerTool has been released in 3 versions over nearly 4 years and has been downloaded well over 2000 times. As with any software it's had the potential for the odd bug or two but the current version (V2.5) has no known bugs and is currently being used successfully on Mk1, Mk2 & Mk3 Tiger 800s & Tiger Explorers / 1200s. It works fine with Windows versions XP, 7, 8 & 10, including those running under Boot Camp on Apple devices.

I wrote TigerTool to work with ELM327 leads and released it on the forum as a free download so that anyone with even basic computer skills could have a cheap option to access their bike's ECU to carry out the supported functions, initially just resetting the SIA.

Of the 1000s of people who have downloaded the software, very, very few have been unable to get it working for them and decided to give up. So far, for those that persevered, the main problems seem to be poor quality leads, lack of Windows driver support from the lead seller, OBD connector problems on the bike and sometimes just simply operator error(!).

It's very clear, though, that poor quality leads are by far the biggest problem that people encounter.

So what is this talk of a 'quality' issue?

Unfortunately only a tiny fraction of ELM327 leads sold online contain genuine chips from ELM Electronics, and this is where the problems start. As noted on here some time ago, the first release of the genuine ELM327 chip was left unprotected by the designers and was quickly copied by cloners. Now almost every lead you buy from eBay etc contains a chip with a variation of this cloned early code and claims to be something that it's not. For example, ELM Electronics never released a V1.5 chip yet many for sale claim to be just that.

TigerTool uses the most basic ELM327 command 'AT D' to initialise the lead with a default set of parameters before configuring the necessary settings to talk to the ECU. It turns out that if the lead fails to respond to this command then it also doesn't support some other more critical commands, and therefore I refer to it as a poor quality lead. Of course I have no control over the quality of ELM327 leads that are being sold, and increasingly I'm hearing from too many people getting caught out buying poorer quality leads.

Having said all of this, and as the vast majority of TigerTool users know, there are many cloned leads that work quite happily. In my experience, even the lead Dealertool supply is a cheap(ish) clone but they ensure that it's one of the better quality types. The genuine ELM327 chips alone cost more than a complete cloned lead, so I can see the logic there.
Title: Re: Trying to use TigerTools but...
Post by: PapaTom on August 09, 2018, 07:24:27 AM
T800XC. Once again going above and beyond to help folks out on this forum.

At a time when you should have been in bed. 😴

Thanks.
Tom
Title: Re: Trying to use TigerTools but...
Post by: Stevie.P on August 09, 2018, 08:14:17 AM
*Originally Posted by Norumph [+]
After installing the CH340 USB drivers on the CD that came with it ...

I would advise ignore any supplied CD full of so called drivers and free software (AKA a disc full of crap) and simply plug in your lead and allow windows to find a suitable driver. If windows fails to find a driver for your particular lead then obviously resort to the supplied CD.
Title: Re: Trying to use TigerTools but...
Post by: T800XC on August 09, 2018, 09:45:20 AM
*Originally Posted by Stevie.P [+]
I would advise ignore any supplied CD full of so called drivers and free software (AKA a disc full of crap) and simply plug in your lead and allow windows to find a suitable driver. If windows fails to find a driver for your particular lead then obviously resort to the supplied CD.
:0461: although if Windows can't find a suitable driver I'd look at the driver chip manufacturer's website for one. The CDs go straight in the bin!
Title: Re: Trying to use TigerTools but...
Post by: Norumph on August 09, 2018, 10:56:17 AM
*Originally Posted by Stevie.P [+]
I would advise ignore any supplied CD full of so called drivers and free software (AKA a disc full of crap) and simply plug in your lead and allow windows to find a suitable driver. If windows fails to find a driver for your particular lead then obviously resort to the supplied CD.

Which is exactly what I did.
One of the .exe driver installs on the disk was full of question marks, even in place of OK and Cancel. Obvious rubbish which I'm sending back.

Thanks to TurboTom and T800XC I've ordered the lead they recommend. From a Dutch advert on eBay to its English equivalent, payment to Hong Kong, seller in Houston Texas, item to be delivered from Portsmouth, UK! Talk about global trade!

T800XC, thanks once again for your expertise and commitment to helping us out with Tiger Tools.

Title: Re: Trying to use TigerTools but...
Post by: Norumph on August 10, 2018, 01:06:18 PM
Still waiting for the new lead, but with the questionable one I tried allowing the supplied CD to Autorun and it did have an install routine that worked. The software (EasyOBD II v 2.5.0 Free Version) is quite restricted because it's a cheap knock-off of a proper diagnostic, so I can't use it to set up the throttle bodies for instance. I'll still try to send it back, but as it sort of works I probably don't have much of a case. Although EasyOBD could read the ECU (though saying it's incompatible), Tiger Tools still couldn't (NB just saying, this is not a criticism of Tiger Tools!)

The one useful thing it did do was read the DTCs, see screenshot.
(https://photos-cdn.tiger800.co.uk/Stored-DTCs20180810.jpg)

What does P1105 mean? Clear it and hope it doesn't come back?

When I took the petrol tank off to change the plugs I stood it on its nose leaning against the bench because I'm short of space in the garage, and I wonder if it upset the fuel level sensor and caused the P0460 DTC. I assume the first thing to do is clear the fault code and see if it comes back? Maybe the fuel level float has jammed or damaged the sensor by being moved to an unusual angle.

Title: Re: Trying to use TigerTools but...
Post by: T800XC on August 10, 2018, 01:29:49 PM
P1105 = MAP sensor 1 pipe malfunction

Most likely you turned the ignition on with the MAP sensor disconnected when you had the tank off. Neither of these DTCs are serious and should clear ok, but check the connections to both sensors are not damaged.
Title: Re: Trying to use TigerTools but...
Post by: Norumph on August 10, 2018, 04:51:53 PM
Probably. When the tank was off I had the electrical connector plugged in but not the pipe.

I've now cleared the DTCs and the MIL has gone out, which is progress. But the fuel gauge isn't reading anything, nor is the low-fuel light on although the level is low. Yet it was showing low fuel yesterday. Maybe next time I fill up it will start working.

I do wonder if my netbook is part of the problem. Windows 7 Device Manager doesn't show any COM ports, and the OBD won't allow some of the diagnostics because it says no COM ports are found. Yet the basic test software says it's connected to COM 4. Maybe I should be asking on a computer forum!
Title: Re: Trying to use TigerTools but...
Post by: PapaTom on August 10, 2018, 06:11:58 PM
Rob.
When I plug my lead into my windows7 laptop, it registers on com3, no problem.
Tom
Title: Re: Trying to use TigerTools but...
Post by: Rtwo on August 10, 2018, 06:21:33 PM
*Originally Posted by Norumph [+]


I do wonder if my netbook is part of the problem. Windows 7 Device Manager doesn't show any COM ports, and the OBD won't allow some of the diagnostics because it says no COM ports are found. Yet the basic test software says it's connected to COM 4. Maybe I should be asking on a computer forum!

If you have the Device Manager open and connect the OBDII cable to a USB port, you see anything happening? (in Device Manager)
Title: Re: Trying to use TigerTools but...
Post by: Norumph on August 10, 2018, 09:36:40 PM
Yes, Ports (COM and LPT) shows up in Device Manager when I plug it in, COM 3, 4 or 5 depending which USB port I use. So it looks as though some of the software for that lead may be faulty rather than the computer.
Title: Re: Trying to use TigerTools but...
Post by: Norumph on August 15, 2018, 09:30:38 PM
I finally got TurboTom's recommended lead (the postman delivered it to the wrong address so it took a while to get my hands on it).
It works a treat and Tiger now has nicely balanced throttle bodies.
By the way, the Haynes manual says the vacuum pipe to the MAP sensor doesn't need to be connected, but there was no reading on Tiger Tool TBal with it disconnected.

Thank you T800XC and TurboTom!

Title: Re: Trying to use TigerTools but...
Post by: Turbotom on August 16, 2018, 06:04:21 PM
 :031:
Title: Re: Trying to use TigerTools but...
Post by: j on September 03, 2018, 03:02:52 PM
hi
where can i get tigertool?
thx
Title: Re: Trying to use TigerTools but...
Post by: T800XC on September 03, 2018, 04:56:50 PM
*Originally Posted by j [+]
hi
where can i get tigertool?
thx
If you've just joined the forum after following a link to TigerTool  from another forum then the link is most likely to an out of date version which has been removed.
Search is your friend to find the latest version....Oh and pop over to the new member section and introduce yourself. It's just etiquette.

 :001:
Title: Re: Trying to use TigerTools but...
Post by: tauzero on October 13, 2018, 11:03:06 PM
*Originally Posted by T800XC [+]
:0461: although if Windows can't find a suitable driver I'd look at the driver chip manufacturer's website for one. The CDs go straight in the bin!

In my case, that's exactly what happened. Got a bbFLy lead from AliExpress for 11-50 (saved me a whole 4), and Yodel delivered it today (left it in a "safe place", on my front doorstep).

(https://photos-cdn.tiger800.co.uk/broken_minicd.jpg)

You may be able to see why the CD went straight in the bin.

The lead worked fine with TigerTool under Windows 10, BTW. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/bbfly-ELM327-USB-V1-5-FTDI-Chip-OBD-Auto-Diagnostic-Scanner-OBD2/32790694240.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/bbfly-ELM327-USB-V1-5-FTDI-Chip-OBD-Auto-Diagnostic-Scanner-OBD2/32790694240.html) for any other people who'd like to save a bit of money and aren't in a terrible hurry.
Title: Re: Trying to use TigerTools but...
Post by: bucksfizz on October 14, 2018, 02:16:26 PM
*Originally Posted by tauzero [+]
Got a bbFLy lead from AliExpress for 11-50 (saved me a whole 4), and Yodel delivered it today (left it in a "safe place", on my front doorstep).

Thanks, tauzero  :028:.
I had one of those on my Amazon wish list for ages, but it was nearly 9.50 more expensive.
I can wait for Aliexpress to deliver - in no particular hurry.
Title: Re: Trying to use TigerTools but...
Post by: tony-the-tiger on December 29, 2018, 10:43:46 AM
From tony-the-tiger:  What's involved in testing/analyzing the ecu?  Will Dealertool do it?  What's involved in removing and sending to the manufacturer (Or Triumph) ? Dealer already replaced sensors, spent much $$$ with no solution to my intermittent cold start/no start issue.